Have your friends heard of DVD-A/SACD? (1 Viewer)

[Lee Scoggins]

Not if the person is listening on a cheap boombox, portable player with cheap headphones or a stock car audio system.

I beg to differ here as well. I once plugged in a Super Audio player into a boombox and the difference was still noticeable.

 

[Marc Colella]

Lee,

You seem to be living in you're own little world. You have to learn to seperate your feelings from what everyone else is thinking.

We're talking about the average consumer here.

It doesn't matter if we can hear the difference between CD and Hi-Rez, because the average consumer doesn't.
They can't hear the difference between CD and MP3 - so what makes you think they can hear the difference between CD and Hi-Rez? And what makes you think that they'll care about upgrading sound quality when they have no problem downgrading?

 

[LanceJ]

Here's a depressing experience I had at Circuit City last month:

Took my Linkin Park dvd-audio there to, well, do a little advertising :b on their dvd-audio kiosk (and look at an Infinity "Entra" subwoofer-really!). One of the music associates--about 22 years old--came by & asked if I needed help. Turns out he actually knows what dvd-a & sacd were ("Dvd-audio & sacd have a lot more bits for better sound, right?" Close enough!) and that he played in a little garage band. He rattled off enough terms like chord progessions and modal whuchamacallits that I beleived him about that. Well, the dvd-audio player's "LOCK" function was activated (it had several dvd-a discs in it) & the kid didn't know the password.

Well, the Sony sacd display kiosk was 10 feet away.......No more receiver + 775 player combination--instead, a little $500 HTiB was there. I shoved the Linkin disc in there, fixed all the tone controls (to "flat"), and set channel levels correctly for the cubical speakers. Tested it: I could have sworn the tweeters were blown; I've heard this system at Best Buy and it sounded much better. Anyway, disc started playing and the guy was amazed at how "super sharp" it sounded (reminder: 500 buck system). I was really bummed out by this statement.

Fast forward 2 weeks later to same CC store, same guy, same dvd-audio kiosk. He had gotten the player unlocked and was playing--gulp--an MP3 CD-R with it. :frowning:. It sounded horrible: highs were practically non-existent & everything had a weird swishing sound to it. When I pointed this out, he didn't really hear what I was talking about. But, he was proud of the fact he was able to get EIGHT hours of music on that one CD-R. He repeated this was really important to him.

UH OH. Hi-res for some (most?) young people is a total non-event. He did mildly like the surround aspect, but nothing to write home about.

I know he possibly just didn't know what a properly set-up decent sound system sounded like, but I kind of doubt this. That dvd-audio kiosk used a full Polk Audio speaker system (I think around $800 worth)--the same kiosk where he was playing that MP3 disc.

:frowning: :frowning: :frowning:

LJ

 

[Christopher P]

I wouldn't be at all familiar with DVDA/SACD if it weren't for this forum (and that can be said of other things too). I've never heard it come up in a conversation, and haven't heard/seen it advertized anywhere.

I will echo what some have said...to watch a movie or even a Seinfeld rerun, I will sit on the couch and tune everything else out. I listen to music when I work out, do chores, or drive (though I listen to alot of talk radio in the car too). I have a full DVD/5.1 setup at home, have Video Essential'ed my TV and annoy my roommate when I turn off all the lights to watch a DVD. But I wouldn't think of spending $$ on a nice system in my car, just to listen to a CD or more likely Jim Rome on my short, 10 minute morning commute.

I am by no means a big music fan, I have maybe 25 CDs and some CDR's I've compiled. I guess I don't listen to enough music to care. Maybe that was the point a few people here have been trying to make. Just thought I would share my views, (possibly the views of the majority of consumers).

Chris

 

[Sathyan]

This has been an interesting thread to watch. In a low-growth economy, DVD-V's are certainly competing with audio-only recordings. So far this year, I've spent more on video (4 DVD-V's, Netflix / cable subscriptions) than audio (8 CDs / 45 LPs). (That's right RIAA - DVDs not Kazaa has reduced my CD purchasing). I just got into audio within the last year. Prior to that I was using an Aiwa minisystem on which 128kbps MP3s and redbook CDs were indistinguishable. J6P probably has a better system than that but not by much.

Since upgrading I've been noticing how bad many of my CDs sound (the following are consistently good labels to which the prior comment does not apply: Chesky, Blue Note, Deutsche Grammophon, Telarc, Impulse, EMI Classical, and Decca) with compressed dynamics, excessive processing, reduced soundstage - almost like they've been run through the MP3 codec.

I for one don't want SACD going mainstream. Engineers should be able to assume the end-user has a decent system, not competing with road noise. SACD as a mark of quality mixing/mastering is what I'm hoping for

Now I don't have an SACD player but have listened at the audiophile story and am duly impressed with the samples. I'll probably get Sony's successor to the '775 if they release it. What I'd really like is a universal audio player (CD/HDCD/SACD/DVD-A, no DVD-V) but there's no market.

As to the question of the OP, my friends have not heard of it. When we were in Virgin Megastore last week, they had a SACD/DVD-A display set up, so I asked - my friends use stock auto and boomboxes. (Incidentally, Virgin had more vinyl titles than high-rez digital on display)

Sathyan
NP Natasha St-Pier - de l'amour le mieux

 

[Lee Scoggins]

SACD as a mark of quality mixing/mastering is what I'm hoping for

Regardless of what hi-rez format you like, I think most will agree that hi-rez could force more discipline in the mastering suite.

 

[Lee Scoggins]

You seem to be living in you're own little world. You have to learn to seperate your feelings from what everyone else is thinking.

Marc,

This is simply an unfair slam on my opinion. You can disagree with my views, but please do not say things like I live in a different world. There are many other recording engineers that agree with me.

I am entitled to my personal opinion regardless of how unpopular it may be with some.

 

[Michael St. Clair]

There are many other recording engineers that agree with me.

There are other recording engineers that believe if we grabbed a group of random consumers off the street, and played them the Redbook PCM and SACD DSD versions of the exact same recording, level-matched, from a boombox, that said consumers will be able to accurately and consistently pick which one is from the 'higher quality' source?

1) Who are these engineers?
2) When did recording engineers start working extensively with focus groups of random consumers, particularly studies involving DBT and/or ABX testing?

 

[MarkHastings]

It's not that the average consumer doesn't "get it", it's that he/she simply doesn't care. I don't think that will ever change enough to make SACD/DVD-A more than a niche product

I wouldn't say the average consumer isn't the only one. I have 1 DVD-A disc and 1 DTS CD and while they both sound awesome I am not particularly fond of it beacuse the only place I can listen to it is in my living room. I have a 2 hour commute so portability is a big definite. Playing CD's in the car and ripping them to my MP3 player is more important to me right now than the benefits of DVD-A/SACD. Maybe when all stereos become capable of playing them (and better titles are available on these formats ) then it'd be a different story, but for right now redbook cd's do the job.

 

[Thomas Newton]

I for one don't want SACD going mainstream. Engineers should be able to assume the end-user has a decent system, not competing with road noise. SACD as a mark of quality mixing/mastering is what I'm hoping for

With DVD/SACD-like disc formats, if the industry had been more forward-looking, there could have been two copies of an album on each disc.

One high-resolution copy, without dynamic compression, for critical listening on a decent home system. One lower-resolution copy with dynamic compression appropriate for noisy environments. Home equipment could select the high-resolution version by default; mobile equipment could give users a choice.

 

[Marc Colella]

There are many other recording engineers that agree with me.

Once again, I'm talking about the average consumer (in relation to music) and recording engineers don't fall in this category.
I'm not disputing the fact that you or the average recording engineer can hear the difference... in fact, I can hear the difference also. The average consumer will not.

 

[Lee Scoggins]

When did recording engineers start working extensively with focus groups of random consumers, particularly studies involving DBT and/or ABX testing?

Michael, engineers do ABX testing all day long in the dozens of sessions I have produced or recorded. And they have a unique perspective on consumer trends having been exposed to past failings like Quad.

 

[Michael St. Clair]

Michael, engineers do ABX testing all day long in the dozens of sessions I have produced or recorded. And they have a unique perspective on consumer trends having been exposed to past failings like Quad.

And those are two different things - not the two things (blind testing with consumers using low-fidelity plaback hardware) combined. Not to mention that the failure of quad was a marketing issue for the marketing types.

Please name some recording engineers who believe regular consumers will hear the benefit of high-res over boomboxes.

 

[Lee Scoggins]

Please name some recording engineers who believe regular consumers will hear the benefit of high-res over boomboxes.

Michael Bishop, Steve Guttenberg, Jeremy Kipnis, for sure. My guess is that Tony Faulkner and Bob Katz would also be on board given a good source, based on prior conversations and emails.

Now, can you name good engineers that dispute the difference?

I say good because many pop engineers have no ears.

 

[Michael St. Clair]

Michael Bishop, Steve Guttenberg, Jeremy Kipnis, for sure. My guess is that Tony Faulkner and Bob Katz would also be on board given a good source, based on prior conversations and emails.

Got any contact info? Think we can get them here for a chat? Why limit our chats to studio execs...

 

[Lee Scoggins]

Think we can get them here for a chat?

It's possible - I will look into it.

 

[Jack Briggs]

Just a friendly reminder in the interests of keeping an interesting thread alive: Let's not get personal. Thanks!