Do any of you own a SVS and have you used the port blockers to tune it too 20Hz?

Discussion in 'Speakers & Subwoofers' started by Chris Grillo, Jan 26, 2004.

  1. Chris Grillo

    Chris Grillo Stunt Coordinator

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    I just bought my 25-31PC+ from a friend (you know who you are [​IMG] Thank you ) and I think I know how to tune it to 20Hz? You pry the grill off, then put in one port blocker and set the dial to 20 instead of 25 right ! now the real question! is there a lot of content that I am missing leaving it at 25Hz? The reason I ask is sometimes I see LFE activety and I don't feel or hear anything! Also how far in do you put the blocker and how do you get it back out once its in there?

    Thanks for your help!! I will give a small review once I put the unit threw all the motions!! So far I love this thing[​IMG]!
     
  2. WayneO

    WayneO Supporting Actor

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    You won't miss a whole lot tuned at 25hz, but more and more DVD's/Movies are being mixed with low bass. So for a movie like "Goodfella's" leave it 25hz, if watching Star Wars, put it to 20hz. But unless you really feel your pushing it a 25hz, why not tune it to 20hz and you'll be sure to get most everything from today's movie soundtracks. Also, you got the tuning part right, the plug just has to be about 1/2" from the top. To get it out you just stick your finger in the side and squeeze it and pull it out.

    Where do you "see" it?
     
  3. Chris Grillo

    Chris Grillo Stunt Coordinator

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    I use a Sony DA4ES and it has a LFE meter that shows LFE activity so whenever there is a signal sent it shows the signal and the strength of it!

    so you say about 1/2" from the top of the port! cool I will try it! Its funny you said Star Wars because thats the movie I was watching when I noticed it!!
     
  4. Robert Hoffman

    Robert Hoffman Stunt Coordinator

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    I actually use my 25-31+ tuned to 16hz. I'm in a relatively small NYC apartment and have no need for any extra volume. I've got the gain set at 1/3 power and my LFE channel on my HK 230 at -8db. Enjoy your new sub!!
     
  5. Chris Grillo

    Chris Grillo Stunt Coordinator

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    Robert,
    I can not believe the output of this sub!
    what movies have you watched that go down that far?
    my gain is about 1/3 and I am at -14 and it still rocks!!
    ps my sub level scale is -20 to +10. do you have a LFE output level?
    mine is set to 0
     
  6. terence

    terence Supporting Actor

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    Hi Chris,

    I own a 4ES too, I'm running dual 20-39PC+'s my LFE is -5/ gain 1/2 (on sub)but YMMV depending on room size and set-up.

    Here is a list that i use for intence LFE tracks.

    Blade II -dts
    Underworld
    Matrix Reloaded
    Titan A.E. dts
    Hulk
    Finding Nemo
    Atlantis
    Toy Story II
    Monster's Inc.
    Final Fantasy-TSWI
    Pearl Harbor dts
    We Were Soldiers
    U571 dts
    Bad Boys II (listen to the gun battles)
    T3-ROTM
    JP III dts
    Spider-Man
    Tears Of The Sun
    007-Die anoter Day
    LOTR-FOTR EE dts

    That's it and have fun!
     
  7. Zack_R

    Zack_R Stunt Coordinator

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    Chris,

    I have an SVS and the 4ES.

    IMO, the LFE indicator is just that, it indicates the presence of an LFE signal and to some degree the intensity. The more bars that light up the more intense the LFE signal. But with only three bars it's difficult to determine what the actual range is. I'm sure with the third bar lit that it can be a maximum LFE signal but I also think it come be some amount of db lower just not sure how much. If you are only seeing one bar then it may just be a really low volume LFE as opposed to a low frequency signal. If you are seeing three bars and not hearing anything then it probably is a low frequency signal beyond the tuning point.

    I think your settings for the sub is fine but you can probably go much higher than -14 if you want. I run my Ultra in a 7500+ cubic ft basement at -6db for movies and I sit ~ 15 feet from the sub. I can demo most action oriented movies at -3db from master reference before the Samson clip light flickers much with this sub setting. I usually watch movies at a master volume setting of -6 to -8db (-30 and -32 respectively / reference = -24 on the master volume).

    The following movie clips cause the Samson light to flicker briefly at the same -3db point (-27db on the master volume). LOTR TT marsh scene where the dragon first flaps the wings, LOTRTT when the last one or two big rocks crash to the ground during the Helms Deep explosion. Toy Story 2 where the logo comes in and stops, Finding Nemo during the Whale scene. All of the scenes cause a little flicker at -3db but no amp flicker at -4db. The Darla tapping scene causes no flicker and in fact can be played at full reference. This is likely due to Darla being less amp intensive since the center frequencies are in the 30 hz range. The Samosn amp is 500 watts so you may get similar results but will obviously have no amp clip light.

    Have fun with your new toy!
     
  8. Robert Hoffman

    Robert Hoffman Stunt Coordinator

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    I have the sub output (not LFE specific) at -8db. I don't have a direct way to alter LFE specifically.

    My favorite scene to demo for friends is LOTR:TT breaching of the Helm's deep wall. After looking at some of the frequency sweeps, it's got a lot of punch around the 30-50hz range but does dip down further. The last two rocks hitting the ground provide some tremendous bass, but the whole scene is awesome. In Finding Nemo, the 'speaking whale' scene has some pretty cool stuff too. I noticed my 25-31 actually move on the floor.

    I just tested out the THX logo scene from Phantom Menace to try and feel some of the really low stuff. Right at the end I feel a rumble in my pants, but it's the first time that I wish I had something like the 16-41+ to know what that deep stuff really feels like. Even though my 25-31 is tuned to 16hz, I can tell there is something missing that I just won't be able to feel until I upgrade (so unnecessary for a 9x13 living room). [​IMG]
     
  9. Chris Grillo

    Chris Grillo Stunt Coordinator

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    HI guys thanks for the info!!

    Zack_R I will try to push the sub a little more tonight I am just afraid I will break it! It has not shown any signs of being stressed at the level its at, but when playing Star Wars ep 2 the ship exploding was so strong I was afraid to turn it up any more!
    Also I will try tuning it to 20hZ! based On what I see you guys setting your subs at I should have plenty of head room to do this!
    You guys with DA4ES how do the internal test tones do for the sub compared to using something like Avia or VA when setting up you sub?? close to low to high? When I try to set them based on the DA4es it seamed weak!! so I bumped it up some!!
     
  10. terence

    terence Supporting Actor

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    Chris,

    I have always use test disc because i feel since the source is a dvd where the 5.1 tracks come from. I use the disc instead of the internal test tone from the receiver, but some live by the internal test tones. I think it comes down to prefrence. Both should be fine.
     
  11. Chris Grillo

    Chris Grillo Stunt Coordinator

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    Terence,

    What disc are you using and whats the best place to buy it?
    Also with your set up, how hot do you have your subs calibrated?
     
  12. terence

    terence Supporting Actor

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  13. Zack_R

    Zack_R Stunt Coordinator

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    The Star Wars scene you are referring to is considered quite intense for subs. I don't own the movie but did rent it and if IIRC I had to it play several dbs above my normal demo level to avoid amp clipping. Take it slow and easy on this one and ensure you have your subsonic filter set to the appropriate tune the 2531 is in.

    In fact this scene may be one of the few that has high amplitude redirected bass (assuming all speakers set to small). This can require subs to handle an additional 6 db load. If you are up for an experiment, I'd like you to turn the LFE on the 4ES off and play the scene with only re-directed bass. My suspicion is that the sub will be kicking out a good deal of bass. Not near as much as when the LFE is engaged but enough to cause the combined LFE and redirected bass to seem hotter than normal.

    As far as Avia versus the 4ES internal test tones. For me there is virtually no difference between the two. If Avia is reporting hot then the internal tones will report hot and vice-versa. Do you have bass capable main speakers? Are your speakers set to large or small when testing with Avia? What crossover setting do you use? I'm thinking you may be getting bass cancellation between your sub and mains with the Avia test since Avia uses redirected bass and the the internal receiver tones are discrete.
     
  14. Craig Chase

    Craig Chase Gear Guru
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    Chris, I am glad you are having fun with your new toy. I never set it to the 20 Hz level, I saw you were having a hard time getting the grill off, I never bothered. It sounded so good in out theater room, I did not see the need. But, in your room, it won't hurt a thing, so go for it...

    And I cannot imagine you running out of steam, We never did even during some intense Bass...

    SPEAKING of BASS... We just watched Open Range... The thunder storms are very deep... but the gunfight at the end is like nothing I have ever heard. With Klipsch Belles and the SVS.... It was...

    Trust me... watch the movie... the story is pretty good, too...

    Chris, welcome to the world of REAL subwoofers...

    Craig
     
  15. Chris Grillo

    Chris Grillo Stunt Coordinator

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    Zack_r,
    I don't have the Avia disc yet but I was thinking about getting it. Also my front say they go down to 32Hz but the they are strong to about 40Hz. I have my setup like this all to small, cross over at 80Hz for the L, R, C and the rears are set at 100Hz they are real small (Boston hd5).
    if I cross at 80 how far down in Hz will my fronts see? I know 80is not a brick wall and some lower Hz will get threw.
     
  16. terence

    terence Supporting Actor

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    The gun fight was one of the best I have ever heard on dvd! [​IMG] The thunder storms were very impresive very real and I agree the story is pretty good. [​IMG]
     
  17. Chris Grillo

    Chris Grillo Stunt Coordinator

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    I will have to check that movie out! I never heard of it whats it about?
     
  18. Zack_R

    Zack_R Stunt Coordinator

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    That's a great set-up. I think I have my center and surround crossed at 120 hz. I know I have my mains crossed at 80 hz. I have tried and measured nearly every configuration possible and I always come back to the 80 hz setting. I have bass capable mains myself.

    The 4ES uses a -6db per octave slope and a reduction of 3db where ever you crossover. So with an 80 hz crossover point your mains are down -3db at 80 hz and 6 more dBs down at 40 hz for a grand total of 9 dbs for the first octave. So by 32 hz your mains have been reduced around 11 dB.

    The reasons for using a lower than 80 hz crossover point are usually 1) You think your mains do a better job than the sub at producing the 60-80 hz range or 2) You have a nasty peak or null around 80 hz and the only way to resolve is to push the crossover point down to where your mains and sub blend better.

    I've measured my mains as large only, my mains set to large plus sub and my mains set to large plus sub plus all the crossover points availble [​IMG] below 120 hz.
    And what I found was that using either a 40 to 60 hz crossover point created cancellation below 40 hz with the sub. With the mains set to large and the sub on I got severe cancellation below 40 hz. Using a 40 hz crossover point and above, there was minimal change to the frequency response between 40 and 100 hz with any combination I used.
     
  19. Craig Chase

    Craig Chase Gear Guru
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    Chris... It is time to come out of the theatre room...lol

    Open Range is a western... Costner/Duvall...

    It was out last summer, and just released on DVD...
     
  20. Chris Grillo

    Chris Grillo Stunt Coordinator

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    Craig,
    I'm trying to get out but it keeps pulling me back in!LOL
    I will have to check that movie out this weekend :-}
     

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