deep films (1 Viewer)

[george kaplan]

This may or may not evolve into a tournament depending on the outcome.

Basically, I'd like people to list films in 3 categories (top 10 or fewer in each one).

The first are films that are generally considered to be deep (e.g., The Seventh Seal, 8 1/2, Tokyo Story, Vertigo, etc.) that you really do find to be profound and thought-provoking.

The second are films that are not generally considered to be deep, but that you think are. Films that (for you at least) do say something profound or thought-provoking. Some examples might be Groundhog Day, The Terminator, Bambi or the Gold Rush. I don't know, I'm looking forward to seeing what people list.

The third are films that are generally considered to be deep, but which don't really say anything profound or thought-provoking. For example, I suspect a number of people might feel this way about Blood of a Poet, from some of what I've read here lately.

Of course, there's a fourth category of films that aren't thought of as deep and indeed aren't. But I hardly think we need to list those.

So, to recap, please list your top 10 (or fewer) from each category. I would encourage discussion, though I'd ask that you keep it polite, and avoid the use of smilies. This is bound to be contentious enough without people belittling each other or making comments like "that film sucks". If you are going to comment, please try to be 'deep' in what you say.

For consistency, let's use the following labels for the categories:

'Deep' films that really are:

Other films that actually say something deep:

So-called 'deep' films that really aren't:

 

[Jim_K]

Off the top of my pointy head (in no order)

'Deep' films that really are:
2001: A Space Odyssey
Ran
Taxi Driver
One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest
Paths of Glory
Dersu Uzala
The Grand Illusion
Aguirre Wrath of God
The Last Temptation of Christ
Schindler's List

Other films that actually say something deep:

Gojira - Godzilla (1954) Usually dismissed as just another giant monster movie. The original Japanese Language version (longer & minus Raymond Burr) is actually a very sombre & profound statement against nuclear weapons.

Night of the Demon - This film is very effective in exploring the blurry border of the known vs. the unknown.

Yojimbo Just another pulpy Samurai action film from the 60's? How about a satire on the nuclear proliferation of the East & West with Mifune as the Atomic bomb.

The Fly (1986) A reflection of the AIDS crisis.

RoboCop - Sci-fi/Comic book action film is a satire on the moral bankruptcy of Corporate America.

A Better Tomorrow - Just another Hong Kong action film? Look deeper & this explores the nature of friendship & loyalty.

Twelve Monkeys - Effective exploration of human fate.

That's all I can think of right now. I'll be back later with a few more.


So-called 'deep' films that really aren't:

eh.

I'll pass.

 

[Angelo.M]

I can see the fur really flying in this thread. Anyway...

'Deep' films that really are:
Raise the Red Lantern
2001
The Three Colors triology
Ju Dou
Ran
What Time Is It There?

Other films that actually say something deep:

About the nature of identity/existence:
Zelig
Blade Runner
Twelve Monkeys
Being John Malkovich
Memento

About perception, reality and illusion:
The Usual Suspects
The Spanish Prisoner
House of Games

About human nature, our triumphs, our foibles, our weaknesses:
Unforgiven
Glengarry Glen Ross
Blade Runner
Il Postino
In The Mood For Love
Magnolia
The Royal Tenenbaums
Eat Drink Man Woman
Monsoon Wedding

So-called 'deep' films that really aren't:
Eyes Wide Shut (I'm ducking for cover)
Mulholland Drive (ducking even lower)
Blue Velvet (digging a hole for myself)

 

[Lew Crippen]

Good one George.

I need to think about this some, but you can bet that Blood of a Poet will be on one of my lists.

 

[george kaplan]

I'm still developing my own lists, but Zelig is definitely one of them. Good choice.

 

[ChuckDeLa]

I'm going out on a limb here, but I'm guessing The Apartment will be on one of those lists, too....

I've never ever heard Mulholland Dr or Blue Velvet referred to as "deep".

The way I see it, just because someone finds meaning in something and you don't is no reason to tear it down. You just kind of make yourself look like an asshole, or worse, an idiot. It gets especially ridiculous when people start dusting off that tired, boring telling-it-like-it-is "emperor has no clothes" nonsense.

 

[Angelo.M]

Chuck, lighten up.

More intellectual masturbation has been devoted to Mulholland Drive and Blue Velvet than I could shake several sticks at, and calling them "deep" is the very least that some of these "scholars" have done.

You're right: I don't find any significant meaning in those films. Tearing them down? I don't think so. You're reading too much into the post.

Those are some strong words from you. I take it that you're not exactly tolerant of opinions that don't square with yours. Good for you.

That's what I love about this board. We're all correct, but some of us more than others...

 

[ChuckDeLa]

Those are some strong words from you. I take it that you're not exactly tolerant of opinions that don't square with yours.

Certainly no one likes to think of himself that way, but maybe. I don't think I am any more so than anyone else, but perhaps I vocalize it more.

I think what I'm most intolerant of is this weird crusade of George's against "serious" and "deep" films. I'm not entirely sure what he's trying to prove with this. Why would you say something isn't deep, if someone else finds meaning in it? Aren't you thus implying that these people do who find meaning in that thing are shallow?

Maybe the number of negative threads around here lately (worst movies draft, great movies you hate) is getting to me. What's next, the "ugly girls draft"?

 

[ChuckDeLa]

At any rate, here's a list of 10 films I find profound and thought-provoking, regardless of whether they're "generally considered" to be deep or not:

Safe
Red Beard
El Norte
A Clockwork Orange
Harold and Maude
Wild Strawberries
The Seventh Seal
Waking Life
Do the Right Thing
Crimes & Misdemeanors

 

[Angelo.M]

Chuck:

Perhaps we listen/read in very different circles, but a lot of speculation I've run across about the "meaning" of Mulholland dives headfirst into meandering ruminations about reality/illusion/identity/dream-states, etc and so on. I have no problem with this sort of exploration of the film, I just think that it has been over-analyzed, and Lynch himself has, from what I can tell, distanced himself from any particular interpretation of the film. And as for Blue Velvet, again I've sat through discussions of the "layers" of this film. I won't argue with you about these points except to say that, unlike you, I have certainly heard both of these films referred to as "deep."

I think the negative threads are getting to you. This is supposed to be fun, right? And I'm hazarding a guess that George is not on a "weird crusade" and not out to criticize folks that find significant meaning in a particular film. Although, out of everything I've 'said' in this thread, that's the one thing I feel least certain of.

And, to sum up, I think that Mulholland and Velvet are intriguing, well-crafted and entertaining films. They are not completely to my taste, and I'm far less enamored of them than many folks around here, but I was not trying to be disparaging of them. Nor was I trying to be hostile to Eyes Wide Shut, which I thought was well-crafted but critically flawed.

I don't like the "worst" threads either, and thus I have not posted anything in the "Worst Movies Draft" or the "Great Movies You Hate" threads.

Cheers...

 

[Brook K]

This is probably based on a recent post I made in response to George, Dome and a few others . But I'll bite

Deep and are (picking rather randomly, 1 film per director and trying to stick to better known films)
Ikiru
Tokyo Story
Ordet
2001
The Seventh Seal
That Obscure Object Of Desire
8 1/2
Andrei Rublev
The Decalogue
The Last Temptation Of Christ

Not deep, but are (not sure how to define this, kind of shooting in the dark with these)
Taxi Driver
High Noon
Belle De Jour
Written On The Wind
The Lady Eve
The Birds
The Straight Story
A Better Tomorrow
Fox And His Friends (ok, I couldn't make them all well known :b )
Edward Scissorhands

 

[JonZ]

Ill just list mine as movies that make u think.

Off the top of my head:

2001 A Space Odyssey
Apocalypse Now
The Godfather Trilogy
Blade Runner
A Clockwork Orange
One Flew Over The Cuckoos Nest
Dead Man Walking
Exotica
Gattaca
Born On The Fourth Of July
Unforgiven
The Thin Red Line
Rashomon
Ran
Seven Samurai
Memento
Citizen Kane
Jacobs Ladder
JFK
Platoon
Vertigo
Schindlers List

 

[Angelo.M]

JonZ: excellent list.

Chuck: at least we agree on some films, e.g. Zelig and Glengarry Glenn Ross, from the other thread.

 

[george kaplan]

As I said in my first post,

Well you're entitled to your opinion, and I'm not even going to debate it, because as you may have noticed, I have gone out of my way not to use any colorful language to describe these films.

 

[Bill J]

'Deep' films that really are:
2001: A Space Odyssey
Apocalypse Now
The Seventh Seal
8 1/2
Vertigo
Andrei Rublev
Solaris (1972)
Schindler's List
Wild Strawberries
Ran

Other films that actually say something deep:
The Thin Red Line
Pi
Dark City
JFK
Magnolia
Unforgiven
Signs

 

[Patrick McCart]

Deep, are such:

8 1/2
Metropolis
Being There
2001: A Space Odyssey
Shadow of the Vampire
Nosferatu (1922)
Napoleon vu par Abel Gance

Say deep things:

The Great Dictator
Doctor Zhivago
One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest

 

[george kaplan]

Well I'm having a hard time narrowing things down to 10.

I believe the following all are considered deep (they're all 'serious' films on the Sight & Sound list):

Deep films that really are:

8 1/2
2001
A Clockwork Orange
Paths of Glory
Vertigo
Open City
The Treasure of the Sierra Madre
M
Schindler's List
Rear Window

a lot of Kubrick on my list

Three others that I had a hard time cutting:

Citizen Kane
Metropolis
The Last Picture Show

 

[Dome Vongvises]

'Deep' films that really are
Andrei Rublev
2001: A Space Odyssey
8 1/2
Paths of Glory
Three Colors: Red
Rashomon
Red Beard

Other films that actually say something deep
Three Colors: White
One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest

So-called 'deep' films that really aren't
Mulholland Drive
Eraserhead

Sorry. I just don't subscribe to the notion that weird = great/brilliant filmmaking.

 

[SteveGon]

My list of "deep" films; or at least films that have something to say:

Wings of Desire - Explores the universal themes of loneliness, longing, and love.

Children of Nature - Explores the plight of the elderly and their station in life.

Men With Guns - Explores the effects of war on non-combatants.

Before the Rain - Explores the violent consequences of religious strife.

Once Were Warriors - Explores the displacement of indigenous peoples, its accompanying disenfranchisement, and the social and familial problems endemic to such a situation.


Those are off the top of my head - I'll come up with more when I'm not so tired.

 

[Justin Doring]

I have tried not to duplicate any above nominations, and I'm a bit unsure about the first two categories, but here goes:

Films that are generally considered to be "deep" that truly are:

Black Narcissus
Chinatown
Eyes Wide Shut
Gosford Park
The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance
The Passion of Joan of Arc
Picnic at Hanging Rock
The Searchers
Walkabout
The Wild Bunch

Films that I consider to be "deep":

The Big Kahuna
Dead Again
Dead Ringers
The Edge
The Game
The Grifters
Logan's Run
Red Dawn
Robin and Marian
L. A. Story

Films that are generally considered to be "deep" that are pretentious pieces of excrement:

The Thin Red Line

Angelo, it's great to see a fellow Mamet fan!