deep films

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by george kaplan, Mar 14, 2003.

  1. george kaplan

    george kaplan Executive Producer

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    This may or may not evolve into a tournament depending on the outcome.

    Basically, I'd like people to list films in 3 categories (top 10 or fewer in each one).

    The first are films that are generally considered to be deep (e.g., The Seventh Seal, 8 1/2, Tokyo Story, Vertigo, etc.) that you really do find to be profound and thought-provoking.

    The second are films that are not generally considered to be deep, but that you think are. Films that (for you at least) do say something profound or thought-provoking. Some examples might be Groundhog Day, The Terminator, Bambi or the Gold Rush. I don't know, I'm looking forward to seeing what people list.

    The third are films that are generally considered to be deep, but which don't really say anything profound or thought-provoking. For example, I suspect a number of people might feel this way about Blood of a Poet, from some of what I've read here lately.

    Of course, there's a fourth category of films that aren't thought of as deep and indeed aren't. But I hardly think we need to list those. [​IMG]

    So, to recap, please list your top 10 (or fewer) from each category. I would encourage discussion, though I'd ask that you keep it polite, and avoid the use of smilies. This is bound to be contentious enough without people belittling each other or making comments like "that film sucks". If you are going to comment, please try to be 'deep' in what you say. [​IMG]

    For consistency, let's use the following labels for the categories:

    'Deep' films that really are:

    Other films that actually say something deep:

    So-called 'deep' films that really aren't:
     
  2. Jim_K

    Jim_K Executive Producer

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    Off the top of my pointy head (in no order)

    'Deep' films that really are:
    2001: A Space Odyssey
    Ran
    Taxi Driver
    One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest
    Paths of Glory
    Dersu Uzala
    The Grand Illusion
    Aguirre Wrath of God
    The Last Temptation of Christ
    Schindler's List


    Other films that actually say something deep:

    Gojira - Godzilla (1954) Usually dismissed as just another giant monster movie. The original Japanese Language version (longer & minus Raymond Burr) is actually a very sombre & profound statement against nuclear weapons.

    Night of the Demon - This film is very effective in exploring the blurry border of the known vs. the unknown.

    Yojimbo Just another pulpy Samurai action film from the 60's? How about a satire on the nuclear proliferation of the East & West with Mifune as the Atomic bomb. [​IMG]

    The Fly (1986) A reflection of the AIDS crisis.

    RoboCop - Sci-fi/Comic book action film is a satire on the moral bankruptcy of Corporate America.

    A Better Tomorrow - Just another Hong Kong action film? Look deeper & this explores the nature of friendship & loyalty.

    Twelve Monkeys - Effective exploration of human fate.

    That's all I can think of right now. I'll be back later with a few more.


    So-called 'deep' films that really aren't:

    eh.

    I'll pass. [​IMG]
     
  3. Angelo.M

    Angelo.M Producer

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    I can see the fur really flying in this thread. Anyway...

    'Deep' films that really are:
    Raise the Red Lantern
    2001
    The Three Colors triology
    Ju Dou
    Ran
    What Time Is It There?

    Other films that actually say something deep:

    About the nature of identity/existence:
    Zelig
    Blade Runner
    Twelve Monkeys
    Being John Malkovich
    Memento

    About perception, reality and illusion:
    The Usual Suspects
    The Spanish Prisoner
    House of Games

    About human nature, our triumphs, our foibles, our weaknesses:
    Unforgiven
    Glengarry Glen Ross
    Blade Runner
    Il Postino
    In The Mood For Love
    Magnolia
    The Royal Tenenbaums
    Eat Drink Man Woman
    Monsoon Wedding

    So-called 'deep' films that really aren't:
    Eyes Wide Shut (I'm ducking for cover)
    Mulholland Drive (ducking even lower)
    Blue Velvet (digging a hole for myself)
     
  4. Lew Crippen

    Lew Crippen Executive Producer

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    Good one George. [​IMG]

    I need to think about this some, but you can bet that Blood of a Poet will be on one of my lists. [​IMG]
     
  5. george kaplan

    george kaplan Executive Producer

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    I'm still developing my own lists, but Zelig is definitely one of them. Good choice.
     
  6. ChuckDeLa

    ChuckDeLa Cinematographer

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    I'm going out on a limb here, but I'm guessing The Apartment will be on one of those lists, too....

    I've never ever heard Mulholland Dr or Blue Velvet referred to as "deep".

    The way I see it, just because someone finds meaning in something and you don't is no reason to tear it down. You just kind of make yourself look like an asshole, or worse, an idiot. It gets especially ridiculous when people start dusting off that tired, boring telling-it-like-it-is "emperor has no clothes" nonsense.
     
  7. Angelo.M

    Angelo.M Producer

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    Chuck, lighten up.

    More intellectual masturbation has been devoted to Mulholland Drive and Blue Velvet than I could shake several sticks at, and calling them "deep" is the very least that some of these "scholars" have done.

    You're right: I don't find any significant meaning in those films. Tearing them down? I don't think so. You're reading too much into the post.

    Those are some strong words from you. I take it that you're not exactly tolerant of opinions that don't square with yours. Good for you.

    That's what I love about this board. We're all correct, but some of us more than others...
     
  8. ChuckDeLa

    ChuckDeLa Cinematographer

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  9. ChuckDeLa

    ChuckDeLa Cinematographer

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    At any rate, here's a list of 10 films I find profound and thought-provoking, regardless of whether they're "generally considered" to be deep or not:

    Safe
    Red Beard
    El Norte
    A Clockwork Orange
    Harold and Maude
    Wild Strawberries
    The Seventh Seal
    Waking Life
    Do the Right Thing
    Crimes & Misdemeanors
     
  10. Angelo.M

    Angelo.M Producer

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    Chuck:

    Perhaps we listen/read in very different circles, but a lot of speculation I've run across about the "meaning" of Mulholland dives headfirst into meandering ruminations about reality/illusion/identity/dream-states, etc and so on. I have no problem with this sort of exploration of the film, I just think that it has been over-analyzed, and Lynch himself has, from what I can tell, distanced himself from any particular interpretation of the film. And as for Blue Velvet, again I've sat through discussions of the "layers" of this film. I won't argue with you about these points except to say that, unlike you, I have certainly heard both of these films referred to as "deep."

    I think the negative threads are getting to you. This is supposed to be fun, right? And I'm hazarding a guess that George is not on a "weird crusade" and not out to criticize folks that find significant meaning in a particular film. Although, out of everything I've 'said' in this thread, that's the one thing I feel least certain of.

    And, to sum up, I think that Mulholland and Velvet are intriguing, well-crafted and entertaining films. They are not completely to my taste, and I'm far less enamored of them than many folks around here, but I was not trying to be disparaging of them. Nor was I trying to be hostile to Eyes Wide Shut, which I thought was well-crafted but critically flawed.

    I don't like the "worst" threads either, and thus I have not posted anything in the "Worst Movies Draft" or the "Great Movies You Hate" threads.

    Cheers... [​IMG]
     
  11. Brook K

    Brook K Lead Actor

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    This is probably based on a recent post I made in response to George, Dome and a few others . But I'll bite

    Deep and are (picking rather randomly, 1 film per director and trying to stick to better known films)
    Ikiru
    Tokyo Story
    Ordet
    2001
    The Seventh Seal
    That Obscure Object Of Desire
    8 1/2
    Andrei Rublev
    The Decalogue
    The Last Temptation Of Christ

    Not deep, but are (not sure how to define this, kind of shooting in the dark with these)
    Taxi Driver
    High Noon
    Belle De Jour
    Written On The Wind
    The Lady Eve
    The Birds
    The Straight Story
    A Better Tomorrow
    Fox And His Friends (ok, I couldn't make them all well known :b )
    Edward Scissorhands
     
  12. JonZ

    JonZ Lead Actor

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    Ill just list mine as movies that make u think.

    Off the top of my head:

    2001 A Space Odyssey
    Apocalypse Now
    The Godfather Trilogy
    Blade Runner
    A Clockwork Orange
    One Flew Over The Cuckoos Nest
    Dead Man Walking
    Exotica
    Gattaca
    Born On The Fourth Of July
    Unforgiven
    The Thin Red Line
    Rashomon
    Ran
    Seven Samurai
    Memento
    Citizen Kane
    Jacobs Ladder
    JFK
    Platoon
    Vertigo
    Schindlers List
     
  13. Angelo.M

    Angelo.M Producer

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    JonZ: excellent list.

    Chuck: at least we agree on some films, e.g. Zelig and Glengarry Glenn Ross, from the other thread.

    [​IMG]
     
  14. george kaplan

    george kaplan Executive Producer

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    As I said in my first post,

    Well you're entitled to your opinion, and I'm not even going to debate it, because as you may have noticed, I have gone out of my way not to use any colorful language to describe these films.
     
  15. Bill J

    Bill J Producer

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    'Deep' films that really are:
    2001: A Space Odyssey
    Apocalypse Now
    The Seventh Seal
    8 1/2
    Vertigo
    Andrei Rublev
    Solaris (1972)
    Schindler's List
    Wild Strawberries
    Ran

    Other films that actually say something deep:
    The Thin Red Line
    Pi
    Dark City
    JFK
    Magnolia
    Unforgiven
    Signs
     
  16. Patrick McCart

    Patrick McCart Lead Actor

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    Deep, are such:

    8 1/2
    Metropolis
    Being There
    2001: A Space Odyssey
    Shadow of the Vampire
    Nosferatu (1922)
    Napoleon vu par Abel Gance

    Say deep things:

    The Great Dictator
    Doctor Zhivago
    One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest
     
  17. george kaplan

    george kaplan Executive Producer

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    Well I'm having a hard time narrowing things down to 10.

    I believe the following all are considered deep (they're all 'serious' films on the Sight & Sound list):

    Deep films that really are:

    8 1/2
    2001
    A Clockwork Orange
    Paths of Glory
    Vertigo
    Open City
    The Treasure of the Sierra Madre
    M
    Schindler's List
    Rear Window

    a lot of Kubrick on my list

    Three others that I had a hard time cutting:

    Citizen Kane
    Metropolis
    The Last Picture Show
     
  18. Dome Vongvises

    Dome Vongvises Lead Actor

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    'Deep' films that really are
    Andrei Rublev
    2001: A Space Odyssey
    8 1/2
    Paths of Glory
    Three Colors: Red
    Rashomon
    Red Beard


    Other films that actually say something deep
    Three Colors: White
    One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest


    So-called 'deep' films that really aren't
    Mulholland Drive
    Eraserhead


    Sorry. I just don't subscribe to the notion that weird = great/brilliant filmmaking.
     
  19. SteveGon

    SteveGon Executive Producer

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    My list of "deep" films; or at least films that have something to say:

    Wings of Desire - Explores the universal themes of loneliness, longing, and love.

    Children of Nature - Explores the plight of the elderly and their station in life.

    Men With Guns - Explores the effects of war on non-combatants.

    Before the Rain - Explores the violent consequences of religious strife.

    Once Were Warriors - Explores the displacement of indigenous peoples, its accompanying disenfranchisement, and the social and familial problems endemic to such a situation.


    Those are off the top of my head - I'll come up with more when I'm not so tired. [​IMG]
     
  20. Justin Doring

    Justin Doring Screenwriter

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    I have tried not to duplicate any above nominations, and I'm a bit unsure about the first two categories, but here goes:

    Films that are generally considered to be "deep" that truly are:

    Black Narcissus
    Chinatown
    Eyes Wide Shut
    Gosford Park
    The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance
    The Passion of Joan of Arc
    Picnic at Hanging Rock
    The Searchers
    Walkabout
    The Wild Bunch

    Films that I consider to be "deep":

    The Big Kahuna
    Dead Again
    Dead Ringers
    The Edge
    The Game
    The Grifters
    Logan's Run
    Red Dawn
    Robin and Marian
    L. A. Story

    Films that are generally considered to be "deep" that are pretentious pieces of excrement:

    The Thin Red Line

    Angelo, it's great to see a fellow Mamet fan! [​IMG]
     

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