Babylon 5: Should I invest my money and time? ANSWER IN POST #500 (1 Viewer)

[david_hu]

I think the lesson is a season of denouement just doesn't dramatically work for the most part. The denouement is where the balance is supposedly restored or remains in permanent imbalance. It is the resolution and therefore their is usually no conflicts left to resolve. As the spice of drama revolves around 'conflict', a denoument is necessarily short for a good reason.

 

[Yee-Ming]

Sounds like part of the problem is that Season 5 contains too much "denouement", but that was because of the uncertainty as to whether there would be a S5 or not at all. As I understand it, on that basis the Civil War was compressed to end in S4, but once S5 was confirmed, that left the first half of S5 with little more substantive than the "teep war".

As for the SW and DS9 analogy, whilst it worked for those two, might I point out Voyager? Ends with the apparent "happy ending", Borg are dealt a severe blow and in the process Voyager returns home to Earth, but personally I would've like to see a further two-part finale showing the immediate aftermath of their return. (Which admittedly was nicely done in the books, but that's beside the point -- I would've liked to have seen it on-screen.) Some might consider Kim looking up his ex-girlfriend, or the Captain looking up her ex-fiance, or the ex-Maquis being formally pardoned and maybe re-offered Starfleet commissions, an anti-climax, but I think it would have provided more closure than what we actually got.

 

[david_hu]

Imagine a season 8 of voyager with those 'thrilling' adventures you mention!!
Ep 5 Harry Kim is reunited with his pet dog. Very emotion charged ep.

 

[Holadem]

I like the resolution of the Shadow War but I do agree that Into the Fire should have at least been a two parter. It used to be my favorite episode, but on re-watches, has been surplanted by some of the other ususal suspects like Coming of Shadows, [/b]Severed Dreams[/b] etc... The final much anticipated clash between the two titans that we had been hoping for for 2 seasons (not to mentions the First Ones) should have lasted a whole ep rather the little we saw. THEN, comes the resolution.

--
H

 

[Kevin Grey]

Except there is still much conflict left after the Shadow War and hence "good drama."

 

[Paul McElligott]

The denoument of B5 didn't begin until after "The Fall of Centauri Prime". There were two major conflicts (one of them great and the other so-so) and a few minor ones in S5. Unfortunately the need to wrap existing storylines at the end of S4 meant that rather than carry over existing stories from the previous season, they had to start up the season almost from a dead stop, rather than hitting the ground running with "Between the Darkness and the Light" as originally planned.

 

[Vincent Matis]

 

[oscar_merkx]

just received season 5.

Ep 1 is intriguing with the assassination plot and new captain. I have a feeling there is some kind of history between Lochley & Sheridan.


Ep 2 is all about Molari and dealing with his past. Very effective

 

[nolesrule]

Hey Oscar, keep us informed on your thoughts and opinions regarding season 5.

 

[Joseph DeMartino]

Oscar:

"Trust your feelings, Luke"



Joe

Not really a spoiler since the fact that Sheridan personally selected Lochley as his replacement makes it obvious that he knew her or knew about her before he became President.

 

[oscar_merkx]

Wow finally finished season 5 and simply awesome as the final episodes were nothing that I was expecting.

The last episode with

all present except Londo was moving especially with Vir sharing a joke about him. Masterful

 

[David_Blackwell]

I love B5. I did start watching it near the end of season 2 and finally caught it from the beginning after season 4 wrapped up with the TNT reruns starting a couple of months later. I caught the show from season one through season three. I watched season 5 and the TV movies and Crusade (and Legend of the Rangers). I have read the comic book mini-series and most of the novels (didn't read a couple of the stand alone novels or the Londo trilogy or book 3 of the Techno Mage trilogy).

One of these days, I do need to buy the DVDs and watch the series from start to finish. My first instinct is to buy teh Crusade set first (because I think it was an underrated spin-off series). I do hope Ron does get around to watching In The Beginning and A Call To Arms in addition to Crusade because I want to hear his thoughts on those.

 

[Sam Favate]

In these days of so many serialized television shows (24, Alias, Lost, X-Files, etc. etc.) where you need to watch every episode or else you'll be lost (no pun intended), I like to point out that Babylon 5 did the "novel for television" thing more than 10 years ago, and did it better. It's about the only example I can think of where a creator had a general vision laid out and followed through on it, instead of making it up as the show went along.

Besides being one of the greatest science fiction series ever produced, B5 is also one of the finest examples of long-term storytelling there has ever been. Seven years after I saw it's final episode, I am still impressed by the show's achievements.

 

[Joseph DeMartino]

B5 also really made an effort (perforce dropped in season 4 due to the uncertainty about the show's future) to both have an on-going story and to make each episode tell as self-contained story that a casual viewer could drop in on without being totally lost, as well as some more specifically "stand-alone" episodes where only a few details that a first-time viewer could miss or ignore or a few background details relate to the arc.

One of the joys of the show is going back and watching it over again from the beginning and seeing how much foreshadowing there really is, even in the most self-contained episodes. The very first episode, "Midnight on the Firing Line", has a newspaper headline linking Vice President Clark to a political scandal. The episode "Infection" establishes IPX, the shadowy company that funds searches for exploitable alien technologies in ancient ruins, and EarthForce's bioweapons division and their interest in finding and reverse-engineering alien technology. Both continue to pop up in the series and would have become even more inportant in Crusade had the series continued. What seems to be a throw-away line in an early episode takes on new significance in the light of later shows. (Heck, as I think I noted earlier in this thread, Lyta and G'Kar have a conversation in the pilot that they pick up again in the last few episodes of season five. )

Regards,

Joe

 

[Yee-Ming]

Sadly, something like Babylon 5 would only be possible if a studio was willing to make a long-term commitment (5 years in the case of Bab 5 and even that got dicey) to a show, and allow full creative control to one person -- since everything was in JMS's head, and everything came from it, Bab 5 had a coherence simply impossible in any other "franchise" or "universe" that springs from multiple sources.

The closest equivalent I can imagine today would be if someone allowed Joss Whedon full licence to run with Firefly/Serenity, which from what little we have seen shows there was the possibility of larger arcs, but as we all know the TV show was cut down even before a full season, and I don't hold my breath for any sequels to the movie, much as I would like them.

The sad fact is that in an environment dominated by ratings and sweeps, no network is going to have the patience (and cojones) to allow a single writer/producer the leeway JMS got with Babylon 5. And we're all that much poorer for it.

 

[Joseph DeMartino]

Except that B5 got made and there was no such commitement. It was a question every single year if they show was going to be renewed and the fifth season almost didn't happen because the network went out of business, even though the show itself was doing OK. In today's universe of 13 episode seasons and cable original shows that can be "hits" with a million or two million viewers, a show like B5 is still quite possible.

B5 survived (and JMS was left alone to do what he wanted with it) because it was produced cheaply enough that the studio could break even on it from the first-run license fees. Once PTEN had aired each episode two times that show was at least paid for and the studio couldn't lose money on it. (And was assured a profit from overseas sales and later syndication.) That was one of the requirements for all the PTEN shows. The series didn't cost the network a lot to buy, so as long as the ratings were decent it didn't pay to get rid of it and bring in another show that might cost more and do no better in the numbers department. And it was basically a free show for the studio.


The other shows you mentioned were more ambitious when it came to physical production, and ran on networks that demand higher ratings to keep a show on the air. The more money a studio puts into a series, the more control over it they want - especially if what it costs them to produce the show exceeds the license fee the network is paying per episode. (Which is the norm in American TV.) A show produced at a deficit can only turn a profit if it lasts long enough to sell into syndication (today possibly through DVD sales at all) and that only happens if the show does about 100 episodes - 4 or 5 season's worth. So the studios always have an incentive to keep shows going at least five years. The networks don't. Their incentive is to dump an underperforming show and replace it with one that will attact more eyeballs.

And I think a show like Lost, 24 or many other recent "arc" shows belies the idea that this sort of thing can only be done by a single creative mind. TV has always been a collaborative medium, and has always been controlled by ratings and money. None of this is new. But TV has also managed to create genuine art, from time to time. Mozart wrote for money, too, let's all remember, and Michaelangelo put up with a lot more crap from his money men than any modern TV producer ever did.

Regards,

Joe

 

[Yee-Ming]

Exception that proves the rule?

Fair enough, doesn't have to literally be a single creative mind, but one of the points being made was how almost throwaway lines in early episodes paid off several seasons later. I can't see that level of coherence being maintained if there are multiple writers; possible I guess if each writer does more-or-less standalones and the series creator polishes everything later, and inserts "arc" references as well (maybe Buffy and/or Angel managed this under Joss Whedon, but I never watched Buffy and whilst I do watch Angel, not closely enough to note these things), or individual writers are given the storyline to flesh out, with specific points that must be included in the teleplay.

 

[DaveGTP]

As much as I ended up liking Buffy & Angel (especially Angel), they clearly didn't have a lot of plans. At best the arcs are seasonal. Angel manages a little more inter-season arc-based storytelling, but it seems pretty clear to me it was being made up on the fly, season to season (kinda like the X-files).

 

[KyleC]

Sorry to bump an old thread (has it really been 3 years since Ron started watching?) but I just wanted to let anyone know who's interested that Seasons 1 and 2 are up online for free (and legally) on Hulu.

Hulu - Babylon 5 - Full Episodes streaming online for free

 

[Sam Favate]

I'm in the process of introducing my wife to the show. We are nearly at the end of season 1 and she already likes it. (She loved, loved DS9.) By the time we get into season 2, she'll be hooked. (This is at least my third viewing.) We saw "Eyes" last night -- I was surprised to learn today that the actor who played the colonel in it is Sir George Martin's son!

Anyway, great show, one for the history books.