Babylon 5: Should I invest my money and time? ANSWER IN POST #500 (2 Viewers)

[oscar_merkx]

I had no idea who Morten is yet just watched ep 2.16 and now I understand what you folks are talking about

 

[david_hu]

Seeing it as comic book TV is perhaps a good idea to go with.
It was probably the hype that was leading me to think it was of literary merit, which clearly for me it is not.
It was implied that I should just get back to "my explosions" shows which are about my level. I must therefore go get out my Brideshead Revisited & I Claudius DVDs to see these 'explosions' which supposedly are my level of comprehension.
In the end I may end up watching the whole series and thinking that it was entertaining. It won't change the fact for me that the first season was dross-for the most part IMO.
At times I thought it bordered on pantomime and the comic book view of it may help me see it in a better light.

 

[John Swarce]

David, I don't think anyone was trying to personally attack you. I have found the last few posts very entertaining on both parts, and your opinions and critiques of B5 are welcome. You do seem to have focused on only Believers in your comments and I am interested on how you felt about some of the other episodes. David Gerrold penned Believers, and 9 other writers contributed to Season 1. JMS only penned 12 of the first 22 shows. But, he wrote the majority of all of the other episodes (including all of Season 3 and 4 (correct me if I'm wrong, Joe!)) Any opinion on the quality of the writing cannot be based solely on that one show. The last 5 episodes were all written by JMS and start the drive into Season 2.

You will find many passionate fans of this show here and on other boards. I will say that Mr. DeMartino's opinions and insights are well-regarded here. He has a great knowledge of this series (almost "insider" knowledge!) and his posts are always informative. A few of us even thought HE was JMS for a bit! :b Don't be too quick to toss off his remarks as worthless.

Granted, B5 is not a "classic" in the vein of I, Claudius or Brideshead Revisited, but it does stand on it's own merits if you look at the whole body of work. "Comic book TV"??? Perhaps you may view it as such, but B5, more than many series, works on many different levels. This is not Dukes of Hazzard or the A-Team...

If you do decide to watch anything past the second season, I believe your opinion may change and you will view the series in a more forgiving light.

John

 

[david_hu]

I only focused on Believers as indicative of what I thought pretty much alot of the rest. I could have picked other eps to talk about but then the post would get too long winded for my likes.
I'm sure the poster you mentioned has great knowledge of the show. i just don't think it appropriate to belittle other people for having views good or bad. It's not compulsory that I have to submit a thesis backing up my views. Frankly, I couldn't be bothered. I'll leave that for university papers.
Some people will say of a show "Hey that sucked". Well and good for them.
I don't think they should feel as though they have to be hauled before a committee to justify their views.

 

[TheLongshot]

Well, when you say negative things about an episode that most fans think was one of the better ones during the season, they are going to want to know why. We aren't belittling you or your opinion, we just would like to know why, for the purposes of discussion with you, and maybe to enlighten you if you maybe misunderstood something. More or less, tho, we have accepted your opinion (which is why more than one person was wondering why you are continuing if you feel that way. More power to you if you do, just a question.)

This is a reason why people post opinions in a thread, is to have a discussion. Particularly if you have an opposing view to the majority. It prompts discussion. You should be prepared to defend your opinion if you do so. Sure, I don't think B5 is I, Claudius. I don't think anyone here is suggesting that. What we are talking about is that, as far as TV SF goes, B5 is one of the best show out there. Considering all the problems that go into making a TV show with an ongoing plot, the show is quite an accomplishment. Is it perfect? Hell no. The acting and production values are highly variable. Keeping actors around was a problem. The uncertainty of a fifth season screwed things up a bit. But, at the end of the day, it was a success for what it set out to do.

I thank you for your opinion. I'm sorry you haven't enjoyed it so far, since I do think it is a wonderful series. If you decide to continue, more power to you. I hope you discover what we see in this series.

Jason

 

[DaveGTP]

All I was saying is, if you don't like it by now, if there is not an interest in the story arcs and foreshadowed events going on, then I find it unlikely you will find the show to your taste. What sci-fi do you like? As most of the other sci-fi on TV tends to be of the blow-crap-up action & technobabble variety IMO I just assumed that that was your type.

Believers - On Star Trek, they would have saved the kid and parents would have "come around".

P.S. For those that enjoyed the Believers episode, I recommend David Gerrold's War with the Chtorr books. Very philosophical sci-fi...he's finally writing the 5th book...the earlier books went OOP.

 

[danak]

david_hu,
Don't feel so bad, I thought most of the first season was pretty weak myself, with the last half of the season showing improvement (I thought "Believers" was one of the few standouts). I think the 2nd and 3rd seasons were the best of the series, so I would suggest, if you are up to it, at least watching the 2nd season. If you aren't hooked by the end of that season, then the show definitely isn't for you and you shouldn't struggle through the rest of the seasons.

Dana in MD

 

[Kevin Grey]

See this is exactly where I can't figure out why he's continuing. While the level of weakness of Season 1 is often debated, most people are pretty unanimous with liking key episodes like Believers, Signs and Portents, Babylon Squared, Chrysalis, etc. If David isn't even finding much worth or promise in the above episodes then I can't imagine that he will find anything of worth in Season 2 and beyond.

 

[DaveGTP]

He's finally writing the rest of the books, and has a publishing deal for them (plus reprints of the earlier books). He just hasn't finished writing them yet

 

[Joseph DeMartino]

At long last! This was turning into another The Last Dangerous Visions saga. I read the Chthorr books as they were originally released, waiting breathlessly between installments, only to have the project put on indefinite hold. I'm not even sure if I still have my old paperbacks, but would be happy to pick them up again if they're going to be reprinted. Gerrold has always been a gifted and often intense writer, and it has been interesting to watch him develop and mellow over the years. (I met him about 30 years ago at a convention and he hadn't quite grown out of his "angry young man, junior league Harlan Ellison" phase. I briefly encountered him sometime later and he had chilled out considerably - which showed in his writing.)

Around the time he wrote "Believers" he had just adopted a son - named Sean, hence "Shonn" in the script - which is one reason why JMS assigned the story idea to him.

Regards,

Joe

 

[PhilipG]

Okay then: Dukes & A-Team are "Comic Book TV", B5 is "Graphic Novel TV".

 

[Paul McElligott]

That's not a bad description, actually.

 

[Woo Jae]

Ok, just received my DDD order of Babylon 5 seasons 1-4, and am waiting for season 5.

So the suggested order of viewing is:

Watch the TV seasons in order, then watch the "movies".

 

[DaveGTP]

Woo

Personally, I prefer the seasons, then the movies. Technically you could watch the movies in technical chronological order, but personally I don't think they are really neeeded.

Exempting - In the Beginning - kind of chronologically first (narrated from a later point with big spoilers), and containing season 1 spoilers. AVOID.

You could and maybe should start out watching the pilot (The Gathering) as long as you promise not to give up the show. It's pretty rough around the edges, they replace a bunch of people. Although it's not too bad for the most part, some of the actors that they replace later give sub-par performances, and you know how rough pilots are.

P.S. - Also avoid the special features, all of them. Especially the "intro to Season x" ones - they are full of spoilers.

 

[Holadem]

Long time B5 fan here, the pilot is HORRIBLE, I try to stear new viewers away from it, from fear they would swear off the show.

LOTS of crap in the pilot was changed by the time S1 showed up, for the better.

Pilot spoiler:I still can't get over the fact they operated on kosh (!!!).

And Delenn's jedi tricks? WTF?!

As far as I am concerned, Midnight on the Firing Line acts as an excellent pilot. It centers around the Centaury-Narn conflict, which is key to the series, and it features all the embassadors IIRC.

--
H

 

[TheLongshot]

I still can't get over the fact they operated on kosh (!!!).


That's actually somewhat important later.

While I do think the pilot is a bit rough, I don't think it is all that bad either. About the average quality of a TV pilot.

At least they removed the worst parts of the original pilot in the new verson. No more "cone of silence" or the alien zoo.

Jason

 

[John Swarce]

PhilipG:

I didn't mean that I felt the term to be disparaging, but I felt that David views B5 (and comic books) in that way. I do like the term "Graphic Novel TV", though!

John

 

[oscar_merkx]

another update

watched ep 20 where Londo finally makes a stand against the Narn. Very uncomfortable to watch yet the whole series is taking one giant leap forward.

I thought that G'Kar really was outstanding in his defiance and that was excellent and sad to see

 

[MaraKM]

Londo and G'Kar. Such a great pair of characters, and such great casting.

I've always thought it would be interesting to watch a marathon of B5 with only Londo & G'Kar's scenes cut together in a 'phantom edit' way. Or any of the characters, really. To see just the individual arc. (I am far too lazy and technologically-challenged to actually create such a thing, it's just a happy daydream)

 

[oscar_merkx]

Hi folks

Just to let you know that Seasons 3 & 4 have arrived