Axiom CC questions?

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Rick Radford, Feb 22, 2002.

  1. Rick Radford

    Rick Radford Supporting Actor

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    I feel I should clarify my "weakest" comment regarding the Axiom VP100 I made in another thread.

    I've not had any other CC with which to compare. My complaint is that occasionally, I think the CC is a bit on the nasal side.. but that could be because of the location (on top of a 32" TV inside an entertainment center) or maybe the source is just nasal (like Dick VanDyke). It's not that way all the time.. just occasionally.

    I probably won't know for sure how to regard the VP100 until I've had some other CCs in for a test run. But first I'm gonna try one of my surrounds (M3Ti) as a CC and see if I can get some idea of the differences involved.

    Otherwise, I'm completely satisfied with the M60/M3 series speakers.
     
  2. Brian Bunge

    Brian Bunge Producer

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    Rick,

    Are you going to stand up the surround speaker like your mains? This is the proper way to evaluate it as a center channel. No speaker, IMHO, should be lying on it's side. Not even a center channel.

    Brian
     
  3. Rick Radford

    Rick Radford Supporting Actor

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    yes, Brian. I plan to run it upright for my test.
    However, aesthetics sometimes are a larger (WAF) concern. [​IMG]
     
  4. Brian Bunge

    Brian Bunge Producer

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  5. Ron Reda

    Ron Reda Cinematographer

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  6. Jedd

    Jedd Second Unit

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  7. Dustin B

    Dustin B Producer

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    Well, I guess I'll defend myself a little here [​IMG]
    I'd think Dr. Joseph D’Appolito would disagree. He is the guy who invented the vertical MTM layout, and even he doesn't use the horizontal MTM layout in the center channel he designed for a DIY Audax speaker set (if you have some basic woodworking skills and some tools, it will cost your $600 + enclosure materials to build the full 5 speaker set).
    Here is a quote from his write up on his design:
     
  8. Steve WC

    Steve WC Stunt Coordinator

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    Maybe future and present Axiom owners not happy with their VP100's could get together via Marc H And purchase a bunch of M3ti pairs, with each person taking one for their center.
     
  9. Dustin B

    Dustin B Producer

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    Quote from Axiom's website:

     
  10. Steve WC

    Steve WC Stunt Coordinator

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    So, would the M3ti be a better choice than the VP100???
     
  11. Brian Bunge

    Brian Bunge Producer

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    Steve,

    I would take a two-way bookshelf speaker standing upright over an MTM speaker lying on it's side as a center channel every time.

    Brian
     
  12. Derek_O

    Derek_O Extra

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    I've been pretty happy running my M60s phantom center but if I was looking for a center channel I'd be keen on one built like that 3 way design Dustin pointed out, matching drivers and all. I wonder how hard it would be (if I was a DIY'er and needed a CC) to build one along those lines, strip down a M60 for parts and put em in a DIY cabinet. Something I'll have to think about down the road because I've been having trouble seeing how either the VP100 or VP150 would match up with the M60's because of the mix of the drivers.

    Looking forward Rick, to hearing how you like the M3 as a center.
     
  13. Dustin B

    Dustin B Producer

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    It would be very hard to strip down an M60 and just build a speaker like the one I linked to. Drivers, enclosures and crossovers are all very closely linked. You can't just drop a driver into another enclosure. Without the T/S specs of the drivers and a good knowledge of crossover design it would not be just hard, it would be impossible.

    It is possible to make some very cheap drivers sound very good with a well designed crossover. I'm talking tweeters and midwoofers in the $10-$20 each range. Done well you could probably match or beat out anything in the sub $500 commercial range. It's also possible to take extremely capable drivers and make them sound like crap using just a cheap generic crossover.
     
  14. Rick Radford

    Rick Radford Supporting Actor

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    >Looking forward Rick, to hearing how you like the M3 as a center.<
    Hope you're not holding your breath, Derek. I'm sorta slow getting around to this test. [​IMG]
    It's no big deal to do it.. just gotta make the time.
    Frankly, i don't envision using the M3 as a center other than for test purposes. I don't think the aesthetics make for a permanent fix (for me), regardless how good it may be. But I may well try a VP150 as it will fit where the Vp100 does right now.
     
  15. Derek_O

    Derek_O Extra

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    Dustin said:
     
  16. Dustin B

    Dustin B Producer

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    What you are missing is the crossover is designed for the current baffel layout. You have to change the position of all the drivers and the shape and size of the baffel to do what you propose. This will require changes to the crossover to get optimum performance. It may work, but $800 for parts to build this center with an unoptimised crossover seems like a bit much to me.
     
  17. Ron Reda

    Ron Reda Cinematographer

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    Using an M3 as a CC is not aesthetically feasible in my application, so my answer is pretty obvious...VP150 all the way!

    Anyone want to buy a used, but babied (6 months old) VP100???
     
  18. Derek_O

    Derek_O Extra

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    Dustin said:

     
  19. Dustin B

    Dustin B Producer

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    I had no idea how important and complicated a crossover was when I started. I still wouldn't even dream of attempting a crossover design at the present time. You should have seen me a year ago when I was throwing together combinations of drivers and asking if this would make a good 3way DIY option, but I did eventually learn :p)
     
  20. Derek_O

    Derek_O Extra

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    If dustin catches this thread again this would be for him.
    I guess this is what you were talking about the drop in mid-low range frequencies as you approach the side of the cabinet.
    http://www.speakerbuilder.net/web_fi...es/BSC/bsc.htm
    http://www.trueaudio.com/st_diff1.htm
    Since I don't think you'd be able to stack the tweeter and mid-range in the present M60 cabinet width you'd have to have a wider cabinet. Then all drivers would be dealing with a wider cabinet and the mid and tweet would be off the center of the cabinet thus having a smaller baffle on one side. I can see then why you might end up with a different response from the original M60. Plus cross-over design isn't just about selecting the cross-over points but compensating for the difference in raw output levels between the different drivers. That hadn't occured to me.
    It's an interesting problem though and one I may look into some more through some of the free and demo speaker software out there. Just to pass the time.
     

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