Avengers: Endgame SPOILERS ALLOWED THREAD (1 Viewer)

[Joe Wong]

Not at all. I thought it was great. Just anticipating what people who expect three hours of wall-to-wall action would say. I am perfectly fine with it as is.

As for what "we" wanted to see, yes, that's me. I wanted to see the fallout on them. I suspect others did too.

As a fan of post apocalyptic scenarios, I wanted to see the aftermath as well. A few more scenes of famous but damaged landmarks wouldn’t have gone astray either!

 

[Mike2001]

I loved it after seeing it this morning. The pace worked for me as Ifeltwe needed something like that after Infinity War. One question - what became of Mjolnir? Departed for the past with Cap and didn’t come back. Setup for future Beta Ray Bill movie?

 

[Jake Lipson]

I am also confused about what happens to 2018 Gamora. I guess she's dead, but we did see her as a young girl "inside" the Soul Stone. That was never explained. This dramatically changes the dynamic for Guardians 3. That's too bad.

As I said last night, I think it's clear that 2018 Gamora is dead and gone. They've essentially rebooted her in the same way that Groot got rebooted in Vol. 2 without the memories of the team's previous adventures. It was never 2018 Gamora/Zoe Saldana in the Soul Stone anyway; it was the child version of her. I think we can just assume that was Thanos' conscience (or what he has of one) messing with him. I don't think it was touched on in this movie because this movie is not Thanos' arc. Whether those Infinity War scenes in the Soul Stone are clarified by the Russos and Markus and McFeely on the Endgame commentary or not, I think it's clear now that they were not some attempt to bring Gamora back from the dead.

Obviously, I don't want to speak for him, but I also suspect that the death and rebooting of Gamora is something that James Gunn is on board with. He's involved with Infinity War and Endgame as an executive producer, as we know, and he had to be aware of what they were going to do with her before they did it. It's now clear that the Gamora in his script for Guardians 3 that he wrote even before being fired is the one from Endgame who hasn't met the other Guardians before. If he wasn't on board with this, I'm guessing they would have done something else. I'm not sure how I feel about it -- Gamora's character development across the two films is an enormous thing to lose -- but if Gunn was on board with this call, then I'm on board too.

 

[Tino]

I think it's clear that 2018 Gamora is dead and gone

Absolutely clear. Does anyone think otherwise?

 

[Adam Lenhardt]

The second hour, with time travel and the search for the stones, was the most fun part of the film, until Natasha dies.

For me, the second hour was the weakest. I loved all of the unconventional choices in the first hour, and the third hour had so many payoffs of things set up over 21 previous movies. The second hour was mostly just hitting the beats, Back to the Future Part II style. There was a lot of fun in the middle hour, but it was the only part of the movie where I felt like plot trumped character.

Captain Marvel's re-emergence was tremendous.

I really like how sparingly she was used in this movie. Because she's such a recent introduction (to the audience), it would have felt like a cheat to have her play a primary role in the defeat of Thanos. She got Tony and 2018 Nebula to Earth, and then in the final battle she did things that none of the other characters could, and kept the collateral damage of 2014 Thanos's invasion contained to the area of the lower Hudson Valley immediately surrounding the "new" Avengers facility. But the major beats of the battle belonged to the characters we've been following the longest.

The scene with Happy and Morgan was very sad, and well played. You can sense how much Happy is going to miss his friend, and that little girl has to grow up without her father. Likewise the scene where Pepper tells Tony they'll be okay and he can rest. He needed that. But it was devastating.

Both Favreau and Paltrow knocked it out of the park, despite very little screen time. One of the things I found very moving is how Tony's support system came together to make sure his daughter would be okay, and that his widow would be okay.

I wondered about Vision, Shuri seemed like the obvious way to get him back, but as we found out she didn't survive the snap. Now she is back is there enough there from when she was trying to remove the mind stone to do it

Disney+ is going to have a "WandaVision" series starring Elizabeth Olsen and Paul Bettany, so I imagine that he'll be brought back somehow.

I loved Thor having the opportunity to basically say goodbye to his mother. It was very touching and helped his character moved forward.

I think I mentioned it elsewhere, but Rene Russo was given the best material she's been given in any of these movies, and she made the most of it. Anthony Hopkins is a legend, but you could feel him phoning it in as Odin at times. Renee Russo has always fully committed to that character, even when she didn't have a lot to do.

As a fan of post apocalyptic scenarios, I wanted to see the aftermath as well. A few more scenes of famous but damaged landmarks wouldn’t have gone astray either!

I really hope the third Ant-Man movie deals with the fallout of the time jump. For Scott, those five years were five hours. For Hank and Hope, those five years were a blink. But a whole lot of things happened to Cassie in those five years. We don't see her mom or her stepfather in this movie; did they succumb to the Snap? If so, how did a ten or eleven year old survive on her own all of that time? If one or both of them didn't succumb to the Snap, where are they now? It'd also be a way to utilize both actresses playing Cassie, if they have flashbacks filling in some of the blanks from that five year jump.

Obviously, I don't want to speak for him, but I also suspect that the death and rebooting of Gamora is something that James Gunn is on board with. He's involved with Infinity War and Endgame as an executive producer, as we know, and he had to be aware of what they were going to do with her before they did it. It's now clear that the Gamora in his script for Guardians 3 that he wrote even before being fired is the one from Endgame who hasn't met the other Guardians before. If he wasn't on board with this, I'm guessing they would have done something else. I'm not sure how I feel about it -- Gamora's character development across the two films is an enormous thing to lose -- but if Gunn was on board with this call, then I'm on board too.

It actually works in Gunn's favor, if he wants to bring back the prickly dynamic between Quill and Gamora that played so well in the first Guardians.

 

[Josh Steinberg]

Disney+ is going to have a "WandaVision" series starring Elizabeth Olsen and Paul Bettany, so I imagine that he'll be brought back somehow.

The obvious jumping off point for me could be the alternate 2012 universe and/or the alternate 2014 universe. We don’t know how things played out in those worlds, so they can present us with versions of Vision and Wanda that seem to line up with the main universe portrayal, but without undoing the actual films.

 

[Jake Lipson]

It actually works in Gunn's favor, if he wants to bring back the prickly dynamic between Quill and Gamora that played so well in the first Guardians.

Yeah. Agreed. It also depends on how soon after Endgame Vol. 3 takes place. Remember, both Guardians films take place in 2014, so there's a significant time jump between them and Infinity War where we didn't see what they were doing. It's possible that Gunn could jump ahead a while again so that this version of Gamora is more acquainted with the group. Or, if it's an immediate pickup, watching her establish herself as part of the group will be an interesting take. I would think Quill's main goal will be to make this version of Gamora fall in love with him again, but it will also be interesting to see how he reacts to a version of her that doesn't have their shared experiences.

 

[Greg.K]

One question - what became of Mjolnir? Departed for the past with Cap and didn’t come back. Setup for future Beta Ray Bill movie?

Hopefully Cap returned it.

 

[Josh Steinberg]

Alternate 2013 timeline!

 

[Adam Lenhardt]

The obvious jumping off point for me could be the alternate 2012 universe and/or the alternate 2014 universe. We don’t know how things played out in those worlds, so they can present us with versions of Vision and Wanda that seem to line up with the main universe portrayal, but without undoing the actual films.

The tricky thing is that both of those interventions precede the creation of VIsion, so it's possible that the ripples from their intervention prevented him from ever being created in the first place. The 2014 reality seems like a more likely bet, since the changes happened on the other side of the galaxy, it's possible that the events on Earth in that reality played out exactly as the events in the main MCU reality played out.

They also don't necessarily even need to bring that version into the reality; perhaps 2014 reality Vision agrees to have his consciousness copied by "our" Shuri, to fill in the parts of "our" Vision's construct that were destroyed when Thanos ripped out the Mind Stone. So the Vision we get in the future is sort of a hybrid between the Vision we've followed and an alternate reality Vision.

I would think Quill's main goal will be to make this version of Gamora fall in love with him again, but it will also be interesting to see how he reacts to a version of her that doesn't have their shared experiences.

Also the relationship between "our" Nebula and 2014 Gamora, since one went on this journey of sisterhood, and the other didn't.

 

[Carabimero]

As I soak in End Game, for only the second time in my life I feel like I felt when I saw the last two movies of the original Star Wars trilogy. Infinity War and TESB, then Endgame and ROTJ. It's the feeling that all my love for those movies and all those years spent waiting for the conclusion was not only worth it, but there was no letdown (the Ewoks made it tough, though they weren't a deal breaker).

My point is that there have been a lot of other movie franchises since then (the Star Wars prequel trilogy, Harry Potter, LOTR, the sequel trilogy, etc.) but none of them as a whole left me so wonderfully fulfilled and lifted leaving the theater as I was last night. Not necessarily because of the upbeat ending but rather because Infinity War and End Game delivered on my enormous unrealistic expectations; they gave me what I expected, just not the way I expected it. And I'm happy. There's so much richness there to enjoy for years to come.

The original Star Wars trilogy gave me that gift as a teenager; now these two movies have given me that same gift as an adult--and maybe even more powerfully so, since I cut my teeth on Marvel comics of the 60s and 70s as a kid, either through reprints or via the newsstand. Seeing those characters brought to the screen with such competence and vigor and love, and then after eleven years the ending perhaps being the best part--it's all joy.

I'm not that boy from the 60s and 70s anymore. Getting older hasn't been easy, but the gift Stan Lee gave me as a child has now been given again many times over to me as an adult--and in ways I never could have dreamed. Finally, after all these years, I feel like a kid again.

I don't know what else to say except, well, I just can't stop smiling today.

 

[Mike2001]

I’ll have to pay better attention to the interaction between Gamora and Nebula in my next viewing. When thinking back on it, I’ve sort of lost which version of Nebula was involved in some of the scenes.

 

[Adam Lenhardt]

One interesting thing for the Black Panther sequel: Wakanda has been without its royal family for five years. Will they be welcomed back with open arms, or will the new regime want to hold onto power?

In countries operating under democratic governance, will the elections that happened during the five years be considered legitimate by the half of the population that didn't get to participate in them?

Will the property that was seized or purchased during the five years continue to be held by the new occupants, or do the original owners from before the Snap have a legitimate claim to repossess it? And if not, what do you do with the massive number of homeless people that are thrown back into the world with no jobs and no place to go?

So many intriguing worldbuilding questions.

I’ll have to pay better attention to the interaction between Gamora and Nebula in my next viewing. When thinking back on it, I’ve sort of lost which version of Nebula was involved in some of the scenes.

It's to Karen Gillan's immense credit that I never had an issue identifying which Nebula was which.

 

[Sam Favate]

I found the scenes between Cap and Peggy (even when Peggy didn't see him in 1970) to be the most affecting in the movie. I said in my comments for my MCU rewatch last summer that the Steve/Peggy relationship was the best romantic one in the entire series.This movie showed both the tragic loss that they never got their time together (the look in Steve's eyes said it all) and their impossible reunion. Peggy didn't even have one line of dialogue, but her presence was strong enough that it raised the intensity and payoff of the movie.

 

[Jake Lipson]

One interesting thing for the Black Panther sequel: Wakanda has been without its royal family for five years. Will they be welcomed back with open arms, or will the new regime want to hold onto power?

Good question.. All of the sequels to existing franchises will have to address the time jump. Another example: the Doctor Strange post-credits scene clearly sets up the idea that Mordo will become the villain in the sequel. Yes, Strange was snap dusted for five years, but even before that, it's been so long since the events of the first film. Why did Mordo wait so long to make a move?

Do the prisoners in Adrian Toomes' gang still want to make a move against Spider-Man as hinted in the sequence where Toomes covers for Peter? And of course, the age of the snap victims versus the other people in Peter's class (unless they want to say that his entire class was dusted, which would be awfully convenient.) Etc.

 

[TonyD]

Saw it on imax earlier today.
Theater a regal had to restart it becaus they played the flat version instead of the 3D one.
This cause a 15 minute delay as they replayed a handful of the previews again. So the movie started nearly 50 minutes after it’s listed start time.

After that glitch it was all fine.

As for the movie...

Holy Bleeping Moly.
This was spectacular.

I’ll be able to figure some things out after reading the comments and a second viewing.

The First Part that was mostly setup for the rest was a tad long but I’m okay with how it went.

When they figured out where Thanos was and then went to him was great.
Thor replying “went for the head” was terrific.

Thanos plan to snap half of the living away and then go live his days out in retirement on a farm didn’t quite work out as he only had 2 days down on the farm.

When the heroes went back in time to collect the stones it felt like a time travel episode of ST TOS. I was just waiting for that thing that always goes wrong.

I loved it when The Ancient One relaiazed that She had to give up the stone based off of what Dr Strange did with his stone.

Strange did it because he saw that it was the only way to convince TAO to do it too. And without her doing it the plan would never work.

Then later on Tony asks Strange if this was the one in a millionaire n plan going on right now and Strange saying if he told him then it wouldn’t happen.

Loki popping away.
Captain America fighting himself.
Cap saying “ Hail Hydra” to get the staff off the elevator.

When Thanos realized what was happening from the connected memories of Nebula was a serious Oh No moment.


My brain was on overload when they put together their own Infinity Gauntlet and finally understood it had to be Hulk who wields it’s power.
When he snapped and then t looked like all was right again in the world, my head about exploded when Scott was at the window and Thanos’ ship fired on Avenger HQ.
That was when it all really hit the fan.

That fight, wow.
Captain, Iron Man and and Thor getting their butts handed to them by Thanos.
Cap’s shield getting cut to pieces but Thanos’ sword.

At this point I was all ready for this to be how the Cap dies but when
The heroes returned right at that moment was my favorite moment in all these movies.

Another great moment was Thanos ship started firing into the sky and then the reveal that Captain Marvel was finally back, oh brother.
Then she blew right through that ship. Wow.

I could go all day with all these amazing movie moments.

Anyway that battle was one of my favorite sequences of any movie I’ve ever seen.

That was something to see. The relay to get the gauntlet to the van was so well created.

There really was a ton of foreshadowing to the fate of Tony.
Especially when him and Cap agree to keep the current Time.one intact and then to say Whatever it takes.

The moment Tony showed that he had the stones on his armor I mean we all knew he would not survive a snap.
Hulk barely did.

Boy what a way to go out. I was in tears.


We all knew that Cap wasn’t coming back when he went to return the stones right.

He did exactly what many of us here predicted.

This movie was everything for me.

It really was the culmination of everything Marvel and for all these characters that I’ve read and now watched over almost my entire life of 50+ years.
They ended it all about as well as could have been expected.

Now we all begin the speculation on what’s to come next.

Did anyone stay for the after credits bit?


It wasn’t much just a very low volume sound of a hammer tapping on something metallic.
Maybe 4-5 taps.

I usually go five star ratings but this was somewhere between 4 and 5 so I’ll sat a 95 out of 100.

Two tiny nits.

Captain Marvel needs to have a scene with Fury but as we’ve seen in all these movies but one Fury doesn’t get much screen time no matter what is happening.

I really want d more Captain Marvel in this movie.
In a three hour movie she had maybe 10 minutes.
After Thanos head butted her and she just smirked at him I thought that was going to be all her
putting an end to it all.
So I wanted more Marvel.


We’ll be seeing it again next week.
This time on a 4DX screen whatever that is.

Also I’m pretty surer that for the entire length of the movie it was full screen,
no switched aspect ratios.

 

[Jake Lipson]

Also I’m pretty sipper that for the entire length of the movie it was full screen, no switched aspect ratios.

Yeah, both Infinity War and Endgame were shot 100% with IMAX cameras, so it wouldn't have needed to switch.

I agree with you about Captain Marvel needing a scene with Fury, but I think the lack of one is a result of the fact that Captain Marvel was being scripted while Brie Larson shot Endgame. As I noted in an earlier post, it would be difficult to write a reunion that hits the right beats when they didn't yet have the previous chronological material.

I was happy with how much she had to do in the movie overall, though. As others have said, if it had been all her swooping in and taking care of it, that would have felt like a dues ex machina. She's a great character, but it was important that the original Avengers have their victory against Thanos, and boy did they get it here.

 

[TonyD]

Sipper.

Jeez.

 

[Jake Lipson]

When Steve went back and lived with Peggy, do you think he ever mentioned to her that he once made out with her as-yet-unborn future niece?

 

[NeilO]

2) I'm surprised they didn't find a way to have Steve meet Red Skull again. There is no question that what they did have Steve doing in this film was wonderful, but when Red Skull resurfaced in Infinity War, I thought it was inevitable that Steve would come into contact with him in the next film. It seems like a missed opportunity that they didn't do that. Even really late into the film, I expected it to happen; when Clint was saying "You go talk to the big red guy" (I don't remember the exact line) about bringing Nat back, I expected that Steve would do that and that Steve would trade himself for Natasha.

Yes, I was disappointed that we didn't see some of the scenes of Steve returning the stones - this one especially. I hope they filmed it anyway and we will see it on the home release.