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Avengers: ENDGAME (April 26, 2019) [NON-SPOILERS]

Adam Lenhardt

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Title: Untitled Avengers Movie (2019)

Genre: Action, Adventure, Science Fiction

Director: Joe Russo, Anthony Russo

Cast: Robert Downey Jr., Chris Evans, Chris Hemsworth, Mark Ruffalo, Scarlett Johansson, Jeremy Renner, Don Cheadle, Paul Rudd, Bradley Cooper, Brie Larson, Karen Gillan, Josh Brolin, Benedict Cumberbatch, Chadwick Boseman, Tom Holland, Zoe Saldana, Gwyneth Paltrow, Evangeline Lilly, Tessa Thompson, Rene Russo, Elizabeth Olsen, Anthony Mackie, Sebastian Stan, Tom Hiddleston, Danai Gurira, Benedict Wong, Pom Klementieff, Vin Diesel, Dave Bautista, Chris Pratt, Letitia Wright, John Slattery, Tilda Swinton, Jon Favreau, Hayley Atwell, Natalie Portman, Marisa Tomei, Taika Waititi, Angela Bassett, Michael Douglas, Michelle Pfeiffer, William Hurt, Cobie Smulders, Sean Gunn, Winston Duke, Linda Cardellini, Maximiliano Hernández, Frank Grillo, Hiroyuki Sanada, Tom Vaughan-Lawlor, James D'Arcy, Jacob Batalon, Robert Redford, Samuel L. Jackson, Lexi Rabe, Joe Russo, Michael James Shaw, Terry Notary, Kerry Condon, Yvette Nicole Brown, Callan Mulvey, Ken Jeong, Ty Simpkins, Loen LeClair, Lee Moore, Bazlo LeClair, Jackson A. Dunn, Monique Ganderton, Ross Marquand, Emma Fuhrmann, Stan Lee, Ben Sakamoto, Ava Russo, Cade Woodward, Lia Russo, John Michael Morris, Michael A. Cook, Brent McGee, Brian Schaeffer, Jim Starlin, Jimmy Ray Pickens, Jack Champion, Russell Bobbitt, Hye Jin Jang, Sam Hargrave, Patrick Gorman, Aaron Lazar, Robert Pralgo, John Posey, Ameenah Kaplan, Olaniyan Thurmon, Mike Lutz, Katherine Langford

Release: 2019-04-24

Plot: The turning point of the beloved heroes' epic journey, as they come to truly understand how fragile their reality is and the sacrifices that must be made to uphold it.



With less than a year until the movie premieres, I thought it'd be worth starting a thread to discuss what might be coming, without having to tiptoe around spoilers about the big Infinity War ending.

A quick recap: Thanos has succeeded in completing the Infinity Gauntlet with all of the Infinity Stones. Thor managed to severely wound him, but Thanos teleported away and achieved his goal of turning half of all life in the universe to ash.

Major deaths via Thanos's culling:
  • Spider-Man: On Titan.
  • Black Panther: In Wakanda.
  • Doctor Strange: On Titan.
  • Bucky Barnes: In Wakanda.
  • Star-Lord: On Titan.
  • Groot: In Wakanda.
  • Drax the Destroyer: On Titan.
  • Scarlet Witch: In Wakanda.
  • Mantis: On Titan.
  • Falcon: In Wakanda.
  • Nick Fury: New York City.
  • Maria Hill: New York City.
  • Hank Pym: San Francisco
  • The Wasp: San Francisco
  • Janet van Dyne: San Francisco

...plus countless more.

Major deaths through other means:
  • Loki: Killed by Thanos near the beginning, after a failed assassination attempt.
  • Heimdall: Sacrificed himself to send the Hulk back to Earth, knowing that was going to be the battleground for the universe's last stand against Thanos.
  • Gamora: Sacrificed by Thanos to obtain the Soul Stone.
  • Vision: Skull crushed by Thanos to obtain the Mind Stone, responsible for Vision's remarkable sentience.
Surviving Avengers:
  • Iron Man: Left badly injured and traumatized on Titan.
  • Thor: He got in a good blow, but it wasn't enough.
  • Bruce Banner: Still unable to turn into the Hulk.
  • Steve Rogers: Left to pick up the pieces of his devastated team in Wakanda.
  • Black Widow: Same place, same situation.
  • War Machine: Same place, same situation.
  • Nebula: On Titan, in the aftermath of complete defeat.
  • Rocket: The first talking racoon and the last Guardian standing.
  • Ant-Man: Trapped in the Quantum Realm, with all of the people who could get him out turned to ash by the culling.
 
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Jake Lipson

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Good idea to start this thread, Adam. Thank you.

I only saw Infinity War once, on its opening night -- I thought it was great and fully intended to go back for seconds, but there have been so many other movies to see this summer that I haven't had a week without a new release I'm interested in, and I keep gravitating to the new things, so didn't have time to go again without missing a new title to do so. I'll make up for that by picking it apart on Blu-ray, I'm sure.

Therefore, I may be ms-remembering, but...do Tony and Nebula even have a way to get off Titan after licking their wounds? I thought the spaceship they ended up on was damaged or something, but don't know if that's actually true or if I've somehow confused it in my head between April 26 and now. And who even knows that they are there? Rocket? Presumably they will eventually have to join the remaining Avengers on Earth, or vice versa, but it will bee interesting to see how those two stories converge.

I don't have a problem with how Marvel chose to end Infinity War because it was shockingly effective from an emotional standpoint, but I do find it interesting that almost all of the "dead" Avengers are people who we know will have sequels, like Spider-Man, the Guardians and Black Panther, which means we know that their deaths will have to be undone somehow. Marvel could have killed off the characters whose actor contracts are coming to an end, and that would have had a more reasonable chance of sticking. By not doing that, they will clearly be focusing the next film around the core original team from the first Avengers film reuniting to take down Thanos, with the help of Rocket and Nebula. That's cool and all, but I do wish that the Russos and the writers wouldn't play coy with us about things like "Maybe Guardians 3 is a prequel," when it is clearly not.

They can play this card because it works dramatically, but I wish they would drop the act and admit that the audience is smart enough to figure out these characters will not stay dead. That doesn't mean they have to tell us how they will be restored, but don't treat us like we're idiots, either.

Also, I've said before and I will say it again: eliminating Spider-Man may have resulted in the most emotional death scene, but also puts them in a very weird position because Sony is releasing Far From Home only two months out from Avengers 4, and will obviously want to begin marketing it prior to the release of Disney's film. Since Sony is handling the marketing and distribution on that, I don't think they really have any reason to care if their marketing spoils Disney's film in which they are not involved and not profiting at all. So that's going to be super-awkward. We'll see how it goes..
 

Tino

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With less than half a year until the movie premieres

I’m no math genius but April 24. 2019..(or is it May 3??)....that’s like 9 months away :P
 

Sam Favate

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The list of bonus materials on the blu-ray has been released. It's really not fair that the digital version has the added 30 minute director's roundtable.

https://mcucosmic.com/2018/07/10/these-are-the-official-infinity-war-blu-ray-special-features/

Blu-ray & Digital:

  • Strange Alchemy (5:08)– Share the thrill of characters from across the MCU meeting for the first time—and discover why some were teamed up together.
  • The Mad Titan (6:34) – Explore the MCU’s biggest, baddest villain, his trail of influence through the stories, and the existential threat he represents.
  • Beyond the Battle: Titan (9:36) – Dive into the climactic struggle on Thanos’ ruined world, including the epic stunts and VFX, to uncover the source of its power.
  • Beyond the Battle: Wakanda (10:58) – Go behind the scenes to find out how the filmmakers pulled off the most massive and challenging battle Marvel had ever attempted.
  • Deleted and Extended Scenes (10:07)
    • Happy Knows Best (1:23) – Tony and Pepper spar over the details of their upcoming wedding—until a hassled Happy Hogan pulls up with an urgent request.
    • Hunt for the Mind Stone (1:24) – On a darkened street, Wanda Maximoff and the wounded Vision attempt to hide from Thanos’ brutal allies.
    • The Guardians Get Their Groove Back (3:20) – As Peter Quill and Drax quarrel over their failed mission to Knowhere, Mantis interrupts with news.
    • A Father’s Choice (4:00) – Thanos confronts Gamora with a vision from her past—and with lying to him about the Soul Stone.
    • Gag Reel (2:05)– Watch your favorite Super Heroes make super gaffes in this lighthearted collection of on-set antics.
    • Audio Commentary (approx. 149 min.) by Anthony and Joe Russo, Christopher Markus and Stephen McFeely
Digital Exclusive:

  • A Directors’ Roundtable (approx. 32 min.) – Eight amazing directors reflect on how their movies contribute to the Marvel Cinematic Universe’s larger storytelling adventure.
 

Josh Steinberg

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All physical versions come with the digital copy, so as long as you buy the disc and redeem the code, you’ll have it too. It’s not ideal but we’re still getting access to the content.
 

Jake Lipson

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(or is it May 3??

Technically, right now, it's May 3 for the U.S., but I can't imagine they would release it early in the rest of the world given the circumstances. They'll probably end up moving it forward again to match what they did this year. They are probably waiting until closer to the time to announce it so that another studio doesn't have time to put some other big movie on May 3 in its place, so that they can dominate the box office for the entire late April/early May period again, as Infinity War did this year until Deadpool 2 came out three weeks later.
 

Josh Steinberg

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I'm really glad that Marvel both has their slate worked out, and that they're not sharing it.

I remember that in 2014, they announced all of Phase 3 before Phase 2 was even completed - the announcement came sometime after Captain America: The Winter Soldier but before Avengers: Age Of Ultron. Just knowing about the existence of certain movies revealed more than I wanted to know, and ended up being a spoiler of sorts.

I watched Age Of Ultron feeling absolutely no suspense for any of our heroes, because all of their future appearances had been announced. To give one example, I had the feeling from the start that it wasn't going to end well for the Avengers because I knew that "Civil War" was coming up next. Even though the movie Civil War is different from the comic book version, just knowing that a version of that story coming right after Ultron would mean that the Avengers wouldn't be finishing Ultron in the same great space they finished the first Avengers movie in.

I don't want to know if there's going to be an Iron Man 4, Captain America 4, Thor 4, etc., before Avengers 4 comes out - knowing that would absolutely spoil Avengers 4 before I even had a chance to see it. It's bad enough that we know that there's a Spider-Man 2 and a Guardians 3 coming because the existence of those movies tells us more than we need to know about Avengers 4.

So I really appreciate that Feige now gets that. There has to be some suspense watching these movies, the idea that some consequences are possible. I don't need or expect every character to be killed onscreen, but I want to have the ability to watch the movies without the absolute certainty that a character is going to be fine in the next movie because I also have the knowledge of what future movies that same character has already been announced for.
 

Jake Lipson

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Of course they do.

I suspect we will get a wide-ranging Phase 4 announcement, although perhaps no quite as many movies as last time, late next year once everyone has seen Avengers 4, and that's fine.

It's bad enough that we know that there's a Spider-Man 2 and a Guardians 3 coming because the existence of those movies tells us more than we need to know about Avengers 4.

The counterargument to that is we know how the film business works. Even if Guardians 3 and Spider-Man 2 weren't officially announced, we'd know they were coming. There is no circumstance under which I would believe that Peter Quill, Gamora, Drax and Groot all died perminently in Infinity War and that James Gunn would not be given the opportunity to finish the story he began and was so instrumental in willing into being. I'm also sure Phase 4 will contain Ant-Man 3 and Doctor Strange 2 and Black Panther 2 because obviously Disney and Marvel will want to continue the successful franchises that they spent Phase 3 building, even if those aren't officially announced yet. We know those actors still have movies left on their deal and it would bee truly shocking if those options didn't get used. Something like Iron Man 4 or Thor 4 would be more surprising since those actors are near the end of their deals, unless they want to try passing the superhero name to different characters.

I get what you're saying about the existence of Civil War sort of spoiling Ultron, but I don't think it really did for me that much. I don't read comics and I still knew through general pop culture osmosis that Civil War was an iconic comic book, so it was kind of obvious they would get to it sooner or later. Also, because it came out only a year after Ultron and featured the great majority of the cast from it, we would have figured that out anyway had they not announced it when they did.

So while I see your point, I think it's also important for Marvel not to treat us like we're fools and don't understand how the movie business works, and many of the sequels they announced at that Phase 3 reveal event were obvious business moves. So there's a balance to not spoiling, but also not treating the audience like idiots. The "Maybe Guardians 3 is a prequel to Infinity War" line that the Russos and/or writers (I forget who said it) have been spewing lately is an example of that. I don't have a problem with them killing those characters for dramatic purposes in Infinity War because it really worked, but I do kind of have a problem with their trying to make us believe it will stick.
 

Josh Steinberg

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Regarding the Infinity War deaths, I think there will be deaths that stick and deaths that won't. I think everyone who was snapped out of existence will be brought back. But I think everyone that was killed before the snap is likely to stay dead. I don't think Loki gets resurrected. I don't think Gamora gets resurrected. (Given that Guardians 1 and 2 both take place in or around 2014 in-universe, that leaves a big jump of time where Gunn can do a story with the original Guardians lineup and still have Gamora.) But we'll find out in due course. I'm glad that they haven't spoiled the ending to Avengers 4 before a trailer for it has even come out.

Anyway, I'm not saying that there should never be an announcement. What I'm saying is that I think it's fantastic there hasn't been one yet. Imagine if, for instance, they had announced a Black Panther 2 a couple months before Infinity War came out. Yes, it's likely that he'll be back - but isn't it better watching Infinity War without having that absolute certainty? Isn't it better going into Avengers 4 that we don't know the fate of most of the characters after Infinity War? By all means, Marvel should announce the next year's worth of movies, maybe even the next two. But we don't need to know what's coming in six years just yet.

To me, there was nothing wrong with Marvel announcing Civil War. I just don't think that announcement should have come until after Age Of Ultron was in theaters. Basically, I don't think a character's next film should be announced until after their most recent appearance hits the screen. So don't announced Captain America 3 before Cap has had a chance to appear in Avengers 2.
 

Josh Steinberg

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I think you’re probably right. The living Avengers will probably be tasked with sacrificing themselves to save everyone else. Cap has said that “we don’t trade lives” but isn’t six people a small price to pay to save half of all life in the universe?
 

Jake Lipson

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Regarding the Infinity War deaths, I think there will be deaths that stick and deaths that won't. I think everyone who was snapped out of existence will be brought back. But I think everyone that was killed before the snap is likely to stay dead. I don't think Loki gets resurrected. I don't think Gamora gets resurrected. (Given that Guardians 1 and 2 both take place in or around 2014 in-universe, that leaves a big jump of time where Gunn can do a story with the original Guardians lineup and still have Gamora.)

Gunn has said 100% that Guardians 3 is set after the events of Avengers 4, and he has also said that it is the conclusion of the story for this iteration of the team. I do not believe for one second that Gamora won't be a part of that.

But I agree about Loki. The fact that Thanos even commented on this directly seals that deal.
 

Josh Steinberg

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They also lied about Michael Rooker being in Infinity War to misdirect the audience about Yondu’s death in Guardians 2, so I’m not sure Gunn is a reliable source on this. But that’s my point - we don’t know with absolute certainty and that’s a good thing. If Disney put out a press release for Guardians 3 with a complete cast list and plot synopsis tomorrow, that would spoil Avengers 4. And if they had done so before Infinity War came out, that would have potentially robbed that film’s ending.
 

Sam Favate

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If Disney put out a press release for Guardians 3 with a complete cast list and plot synopsis tomorrow, that would spoil Avengers 4.

I don't see how they avoid that. Guardians 3 shoots in January 2019, four months before Avengers 4 is released. We will surely know if Zoe Saldana is present in G3 by then.
 

David Weicker

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Personally, I don’t have a problem with early announcements.

I completely disliked the ending of A3. It wasn’t dramatic in any way shape or form. It was the biggest cheat in history. I knew that every part of that finger snap would be undone. It has to. The MCU takes place in a modified version of ‘today’. Removing three billion people means there will never be a ‘today’ anymore.
 

Hanson

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I remember that in 2014, they announced all of Phase 3 before Phase 2 was even completed - the announcement came sometime after Captain America: The Winter Soldier but before Avengers: Age Of Ultron. Just knowing about the existence of certain movies revealed more than I wanted to know, and ended up being a spoiler of sorts.
Even worse, the two Avengers movies were titled "Infinity War Part 1" & "Infinity War Part 2". They later backtracked, but it was widely known that Avengers Infinity War would conclude in Avengers 4. Plus, they shot them at the same time.

I think the most interesting part of the interview is that Feige confirms that half of all life is gone, including animals. I assume this includes plant life and even bacteria!
But how does that help with limited resources? If you halve the population and halve all the food, then you've accomplished nothing.
 
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