Avengers: Endgame SPOILERS ALLOWED THREAD (1 Viewer)

[holtge]

Yes, I think it was obvious that Ned was indeed in limbo along with all the rest of the original "snapped." Where Sony picks the adventure up from here is anyone's guess.

 

[Tino]

I thought the pacing was off for the first third, but the last hour really worked for me.

Yup. I thought the same.

 

[Tino]

It will be interesting to see what if anything about the events in Endgame are mentioned in Far From Home.

They are. The producer has stated that Far From Home is the film that truly ends the saga.

 

[Jeff Adkins]

After sleeping on it, I think it's actually a better film than my initial reaction. There's so much to digest with this film. I can't wait to see it again and delve further into it. I had originally said that it was very good but wouldn't make my Top 5 MCU, but now I'm not so sure. The more I think about all of the different things that happened in it, the more I like it.

 

[Robert Crawford]

I just won’t go to a theater that serves food during the movie. I know they exist, I know there’s an audience for them, and I know it’s not me. Otherwise I’m sure I’d be just as exasperated - it sounds awful.

Same here!

 

[Robert Crawford]

After sleeping on it, I think it's actually a better film than my initial reaction. There's so much to digest with this film. I can't wait to see it again and delve further into it. I had originally said that it was very good but wouldn't make my Top 5 MCU, but now I'm not so sure. The more I think about all of the different things that happened in it, the more I like it.

I think there is so much more going on in this film that many of our reviews of it will change after more viewings.

 

[Jeff Adkins]

I think there is so much more going on in this film that many of our reviews of it will change after more viewings.

I can't remember what your schedule was for this film. Did you make the long journey to the IMAX/Dolby or was last night @ Goodrich?

 

[Robert Crawford]

I can't remember what your schedule was for this film. Did you make the long journey to the IMAX/Dolby or was last night @ Goodrich?

Last night was Goodrich on their 70' GDX screen with Dolby Atmos
This morning in three hours, I'm off to my nearest IMAX theater.
On Saturday morning, another IMAX showing in a different theater with 3-D and then Saturday afternoon it's Dolby Cinema. Both are A-List selections!

 

[Robert Crawford]

Yesterday, I took a two hour nap before my 10: 00 p.m. showing then came home to post my thoughts on this forum and watch a little bit of the NFL draft that I recorded. Naturally, I wasn't able to sleep much as my insomnia kicked in so I got about 2.5 hours of sleep. I'll be heading out in a couple of hours for my second viewing.

 

[Adam Lenhardt]

Re: the time travel and alternate universes, what I took (and I could be fuzzy on this too) is that an alternate universe would only be created if the stones weren’t returned. By returning them, that ensured that time would flow as it always had rather than creating new universes.

Based on what the Ancient One said, I think the alternate universes still existed. Returning the stones to them was about our heroes not screwing up a bunch of other realities to save their own.

The variation from the main MCU reality will vary based on the specific interventions. The biggest difference will be the "2014" universe, because Thanos and his forces will (from that reality's perspective) have simply vanished, and the Guardians of the Galaxy will never form. The 1970 universe probably is nearly the same as our own, because the interventions were so minor. The rest are somewhere in between.

I assumed he was looking for “2014 Gamora,” who presumably left Earth after the battle, having no connection to anyone that actually fought in it.

This was my interpretation as well. It also allows them to play the will-they-won't-they with Quill and Gamora again, since this Gamora doesn't remember the events from Guardians of the Galaxy forward.

I think there is so much more going on in this film that many of our reviews of it will change after more viewings.

100 percent. I'm actually really excited for the UHD release (assuming Disney isn't all in on Disney+ only) so I can spend a whole day with the film, exploring it at my own pace.

 

[Robert Crawford]

There is simply no way that Disney doesn't release this on UHD!

 

[Josh Dial]

Just for fun, here's my theory about the Endgame plot from way back on May 3, 2018. I think I got pretty close on a few things!

• Avengers 4 will obviously deal with the aftermath of the Snap. It may take place a few years later for reasons that will be made clear below.
• If you look at who is left behind, each of them possesses interesting information: they know exactly where certain infinity stones were before Thanos got them:
  • Tony, Cap, Black Widow, Hulk, Thor, and Hawkeye know where in the past the space stone (the Tesseract) and the mind stone (Loki's staff) were: the Battle of NY. At this time, Thanos had "given" Loki the staff in order to retrieve the Tesseract, so for a small portion of time, the heroes know where these stones are and they aren't in Thanos' possession.
  • Rocket knows that in the past, Peter got the power stone on some planet. He probably knows the exact location. At this point in time, it is not in Thanos' possession and it is not in Ronan's possession, either.
  • Thor knows that in the past, the reality stone (the aether) is hidden away at a location that could be reached through a portal (the one Jane went through). At this point, the aether has not "infected" Jane, Thanos doesns't have it, and neither does Malakith.
  • Wong (I have to assume for purpose of this theory that he's still alive) knows that in the past, the time stone is safely kept at in the Eye of Agamotto at Kamar-Taj. At this point in time, it's nominally guarded by the Ancient One and the rest of the Order, but Thanos doesn't have it.
  • Nebula knows exactly where in the past the soul stone is, because Gamora told her.
• So, because those alive know when and where to go, the plan will be to gather the stones before Thanos.
• Maybe instead simply of traveling back in time, the team will use the quantum realm to travel through the multiverse AND through time. Maybe the Wasp dies as part of the Snap, leaving behind a highly motivated Pym and Lang. Pym works with Tony and Shuri to find a way to travel back to the key points in time. If you've seen the "Timescape" episode of Star Trek TNG where some of the crew use modified emergency transporter armbands to create pockets of time around themselves so they can move freely through a temporal distortion, maybe Pym, Tony, and Shuri do something like that--creating pockets of their dimension while they travel through the multiverse.
• Because the team is affecting an alternate universe, they don't have to worry about causality in the strict sense. However, what they are doing in the alternate universe will of course change its future. Peter Quill will never get the power stone, so the Guardians will never form. Maybe even this means Ego eventually wipes out the universe.
• The team will have to move fast and potentially try to get each stone simultaneously, because Thanos will quickly figure out what is happening. Everyone will split up into smaller groups. Captain Marvel will join Rocket or Thor to go after the "off-world" stones. Perhaps Doctor Strange already sent his consciousness back in time/through realities to communicate with the Ancient One. When the team (Wong?) gets there, she simply hands it over.
  
• At some point, a sacrifice will need to be made for the soul stone. Tony will sacrifice Cap, or vice versa (but I'm betting on Tony sacrificing Cap).
• All of this will allow the characters (and the fans) to revisit key moments in the previous films.

 

[Nigel P]

I feel a little bit the same. I thought the pacing was off for the first third, but the last hour really worked for me.

I also had a lousy experience at the theater and had to be moved from my reserved seat seconds before the film started - that was a bit unnerving and I went from being exactly where I wanted to being in one of the last rows on the side, which I hate. So I’m not sure if the first third was really as off as it felt, or if it was just me that was off.

Sorry to hear about your poor experience.

I agree with how you felt about the pacing in the early part, although I did like how they took time to show how messed up the Avengers and the rest of the world was by what had happened. On a first watch I would put it behind Infinity War, that film just seemed to have a real drive from the off that never let up. I also didn't think it quite had the action set pieces of IW, outside of the final battle, which really was something else. I think some of it comes down to really not knowing what to expect out of this so it could well go up in my estimation in subsequent watches.

I thought it was excellent how they handled time travel. I generally really like time travel stories, but it is a risk to introduce it into an ongoing universe like the MCU. The fact that you can't change the past, but you merely create another reality is great. It meant that the events of Infinity War will have an ongoing impact while allowing a revisiting of the MCU's past and some really emotional goodbyes. Tony and his dad, Thor and his mum were both really well executed. I thought the Russo's did a good job elevating the character of Natasha in Winter Soldier and she was absolutely fantastic in this. The scene on Vormir was great with the battle to sacrifice themselves and the same music from IW. I wonder how it went down when Cap went there to return the Soul stone.

I loved how many surprising appearances there were in this, Alexander Pierce and the Hydra Strike team, the Ancient One and perhaps most surprising of all was Jarvis from Agent Carter. So many little things that just made me smile, great attention to detail and a clear love for the universe they have created. The final battle was awe-inspiring, Cap picking up Mjolnir and finally getting to say Avengers Assemble, the relay race with the gauntlet. The shot of all the female Avengers, although it was a real shame Natasha as an original Avenger wasn't there for that. Tony's sacrifice and getting a final moment of peace. It has been an unbelievable ride and I truly don't think we will get anything like this again for years if ever.

 

[Nigel P]

Just for fun, here's my theory about the Endgame plot from way back on May 3, 2018. I think I got pretty close on a few things!

Pretty impressive.

 

[Greg.K]

Just for fun, here's my theory about the Endgame plot from way back on May 3, 2018. I think I got pretty close on a few things!

Yeah, you were pretty spot on with the basic idea, and many of the details.

 

[Jason_V]

I feel a little bit the same. I thought the pacing was off for the first third, but the last hour really worked for me.

I agree. Part of me was expecting this to be an wall-to-wall action movie and starting in such a quiet way with Hawkeye was unexpected. The beginning was the band getting back together, so to speak, so in that sense, I get it. The humor with Thor didn't work for me; I understand why he is the way he is here, but I don't like it. That's pretty much the worst I can say about Endgame.

Once we go on the time heist-a well done incursion into previously seen material-the movie just rolls. Getting to see the characters who made up this universe come back for one more hurrah, no matter how small it was, is exhilarating. I was flabbergasted shocked to see Natalie Portman, Rene Russo, Jon Favreau, Michelle Pfeiffer, Michael Douglas and the whole lot of them. This is a shared universe in every way and they all had to appear in some way for the narrative to be as complete as possible.

What I really appreciated on the first viewing is each of the characters who took part in this saga had a moment. The Russo's very clearly gave them all their due, first when all of the Avengers show up and then again during Stark's funeral. Those were hero moments or poster moments or audience cheering moments.

I won't lie: as the assorted heroes joined the fight against Thanos, I was crying. When Nat died, I was crying. When Pepper said goodbye to Tony, I was crying. When the camera gives a nod to all the heroes at the funeral, I was crying. When Nick Fury showed up, I was crying. When Bucky hugged Steve and he realized what would happen, I was crying. And when the movie closes on Steve and Peggy dancing, I was crying.

 

[Jake Lipson]

Not at my IMAX showing. That sounds unnecessary.

It was. If it ends up getting posted on YouTube at some point, which wouldn't surprise me, I'll post it in here so you all can see what I'm talking about, but it was gratuitous, ridiculous and did nothing but delay Endgame for a couple more minutes. (It was placed between the end of the trailers and the start of the main feature.)

Why would Audi would do this?

As an ad to promote their cars.

 

[Jake Lipson]

A couple more nitpicks. Again, these are ultimately minor quibbles because I did love it, but there's so much greatness going on that it's easier to start with the few things I wanted and didn't get.

1) I mentioned it last night, but it bears repeating: they needed to have a reunion scene with Carol and Fury.

2) I'm surprised they didn't find a way to have Steve meet Red Skull again. There is no question that what they did have Steve doing in this film was wonderful, but when Red Skull resurfaced in Infinity War, I thought it was inevitable that Steve would come into contact with him in the next film. It seems like a missed opportunity that they didn't do that. Even really late into the film, I expected it to happen; when Clint was saying "You go talk to the big red guy" (I don't remember the exact line) about bringing Nat back, I expected that Steve would do that and that Steve would trade himself for Natasha.

3) How did they have two whole movies where Rocket spends time on Earth and not have a scene where he encounters an actual raccoon? Also, Thor needed to see a rabbit, to pay off his calling Rocket that in Infinity War.

4) I wanted Peter Quill to meet and share a scene with Sharon Carter. I knew I wasn't going to get this one because only a handful of people would recognize the significance of that, but I wanted it nonetheless.

 

[Joe Wong]

An amazing experience. I decided to stay away from social media and even reviews/headlines this week to avoid any chatter/headlines/etc. Such was the hype and anticipation in this household (the whole family including wife and 2 teenaged boys, but especially me and the boys) that my wife hoped, for my sake and for the boys’ sake, that it wouldn’t be a letdown.

And it wasn’t!

Here are some thoughts:

* fantastic story that kept you guessing with twists, turns, & setbacks aplenty
* time travel element nicely done such that consequences from Snap are still intact
* appreciated the scenes showing the post-apocalyptic aftermath of the Snap
* incredible that the Russos, and writers Markus & McFeely have crafted a different style of film after the action-intense IW
* while not a lot of action in the first half (aside from quick interlude when they visit Thanos) the character interactions and reflections were well done
* one expects the trademark humor from an MCU film, but after the gravity of IW, I didn’t expect it to be this hilarious!! Especially Thor and Hulk’s intros after 5 years.
* also cool to see Korg and Meek!
* nice surprise that Scott Lang was one of the more serious ones (aside from his interactions with Cap)
* loved the female avengers gathering around Cap Marvel during the ending battle
* loved Thanos punching Cap M and it just bounces off!
* Cap M was used reasonably well. Wanted to see her take on Thanos but was wary of potential deus ex machina problems if she was too powerful. Elements of both still happened but she showed up at appropriate moments. I thought if only she had done the Snap at the end instead of Tony then Tony would be fine... but Tony has the gauntlet.
* loved all the callbacks to previous MCU entries - many reviewers called this fan service but I consider it a clever use of information we’ve absorbed. Case in point is Cap wielding Mjolnir - we had an inkling (from Age of Ultron) that Cap was worthy to lift Mjolnir, but it wasn’t confirmed. Endgame shows how worthy Cap is.
* the end battle was enormous! Loved all the wizards opening portals
* liked how Gamora who died in IW stayed that way, but they were able to reinstate a version of Gamora who hasn’t experienced what’s happened in the last 5 years. Adds some interesting new elements to Guardians 3
* when you think about it, it seems appropriate that the person who opened the Infinity Saga is the one who closes it (Tony with the Snap)
* lots of foreshadowing about Tony’s fate - how he was reluctant to get back in given the life he has with Pepper and Morgan, and the line he says to Cap about it being good if they don’t die in the process.
* good closure for Tony & Thor with family in their time heist scenes
* surprisingly jazzy soundtrack!
* a few items from trailers were different as expected (Nat’s shooting practice is not in the film) but the marketing and secrecy has been slick
* finally (for now at least) was surprised how quick Tony and Nebula were rescued at the start but it made narrative sense

More as I view it a 2nd time tomorrow and have further thoughts...

 

[Joe Wong]

My older son also agrees with Jake about Carol and Fury having a reunion scene. Would have only added a minute or two but with their buddy-buddy relationship still so fresh from Captain Marvel, it would have been nice to see them say a few words to each other.