Avengers: Endgame SPOILERS ALLOWED THREAD (1 Viewer)

[Jake Lipson]

Yeah. Thor was supposed to win Infinity War. He was supposed to kill Thanos and prevent the snap. He knew he could do it and he had the right tool to do it, but he missed. Then he managed to kill the guy after the fact, but doing so didn't actually solve the problem. That's a lot of guilt for one guy to face down. I felt his response was entirely consistent with his character. It's not cowardly; if anything, it makes him more human.

 

[Joe Wong]

If Steve jumped back from a different time line, he would have ended up on the quantum platform as old Steve. I took it that he waited for the day, jumped into his Lincoln Town Car, and drove to the funeral. I believe they set up Peggy's mystery husband in Winter Soldier to be time travel Steve.

This article appears to have a plausible explanation...

https://www.forbes.com/sites/markhu...lly-a-plot-hole-at-all-spoilers/#30abac919e3d

What do you think?

The point he's making is that since Cap & Tony can go back in time without a platform (from NYC 2012 to NJ 1970) , that's what Old Man Cap does to get back to Bucky / Falcon and sit on the bench.

 

[Colin Jacobson]

Cowardly?

The guy was suffering from deep, deep depression over a colossal loss which there was no way to make right (until Scott came back). Sure, he sunk into some non-ideal coping mechanisms, but he was basically hopeless and rudderless. I don't see anything "cowardly" there.

"Cowardly whiner" refers to the "Ragnarok" Thor - you know, the one who whimpered because he might get a haircut!

 

[Colin Jacobson]

Yeah. He was supposed to win Infinity War. He was supposed to kill Thanos and prevent the snap. He knew he could do it and he had the right tool to do it, but he missed. Then he managed to kill the guy after the fact, but doing so didn't actually solve the problem. That's a lot of guilt for one guy to face down. I felt it entirely consistent with his character. It's not cowardly; if anything, it makes him more human.

You know Thor's not human, right?

 

[Josh Dial]

If Steve jumped back from a different time line, he would have ended up on the quantum platform as old Steve. I took it that he waited for the day, jumped into his Lincoln Town Car, and drove to the funeral. I believe they set up Peggy's mystery husband in Winter Soldier to be time travel Steve.

Her husband fought in the pacific front. I don't think that's a detail Peggy makes up in furtherance of a story--even one with a laudable purpose like protecting Steve.

That, along with the loose "rules" as we understand them, and the fact that Steve remaining in the prime timeline would from 1945 onward means he kisses his niece all point to alternate timeline.

Bruce also notes that Steve overshot his mark. I took that to mean either time or space. In other words, on his return trip, he could have appeared at, say, the lake house down by the water.

 

[Joe Wong]

I don't know if this has been mentioned already, but one thing I picked up on my 2nd viewing is...

Bucky knew Cap was not coming back when Cap went to return the stones (at least not the way Bruce and Sam were expecting Cap to return). Bucky says something like "I'm gonna miss you, pal," as he shakes hands with Cap before Cap gets on the platform to go on his travels.

It's also why Bucky wasn't as frantic as Sam and Bruce when Cap doesn't return in 5 secs.

 

[Josh Steinberg]

I noticed that on my second viewing as well.

 

[Joe Wong]

I noticed that on my second viewing as well.

It's a subtle goodbye, but filled with meaning.

 

[ScottHM]

I agree. "Noble warrior" Thor never really worked for me. Lebowski Thor may have gone a bit too far in the other direction, with Thor: Ragnarok as the happy medium. But I definitely prefer Lebowski Thor to "noble warrior" Thor.

This was actually what I liked least about the movie. In fact, most of the humor didn't work for me (I know I'm the exception). I did like it when Hulk was trying to be angry in New York though.

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[Robert Crawford]

I noticed that on my second viewing as well.

Obviously, there is a time lapse between that final battle and when Cap was returning the stones so I'm pretty sure Cap and Bucky had a conversation prior to him taking off.

 

[Adam Lenhardt]

But from Banner's conversation with the Ancient One, it sounds like returning each Infinity Stone at the exact moment it was taken will cancel out that alternate universe.

Nope, it just cancels out the cataclysmic alterations that the Ancient One was worried about. The 2012 reality will still be a separate reality, where the events at Avengers tower following the Battle of New York got much murkier than in the main MCU timeline, and 2012 Loki escaped using the Tesseract (later retrieved from the separate 1970 reality). But by returning the Time Stone, Doctor Strange will still succeed the Ancient One as that reality's sorcerer supreme, and he will use the Time Stone to defeat the darkness monster. Still a different timeline, but one the Ancient One can live with.

So in the MCU is there not a multiverse with infinite parallel realities and the only alternate realities are those that were created by the quantum realm time traveling meddling, or is there but the alternate realities/timelines created by their quantum traveling are a “different type” of parallel reality?

This is less clear. But I do see the landscape of the Quantum Realm as being a different kind of three dimensional: time, place, reality. If quantum theory. As you say, Doctor Strange already referred to the multi-verse long before the Avengers mucked around with time travel, so I'm guessing the realities we visited in Endgame are a drop in a potentially infinite bucket.

Was the Ancient one’s concern simply that there’s a parallel reality or that “her reality” would be worse off than Banner’s reality because of not having the Time Stone to defend it against extra dimensional incursions (like Dormamu)? I thought it was more the latter.

Exactly.

The point he's making is that since Cap & Tony can go back in time without a platform (from NYC 2012 to NJ 1970) , that's what Old Man Cap does to get back to Bucky / Falcon and sit on the bench.

That's what I've been saying right along.

 

[Sean Bryan]

This was actually what I liked least about the movie. In fact, most of the humor didn't work for me (I know I'm the exception). I did like it when Hulk was trying to be angry in New York though.

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Wait, how is that my quote?

 

[Sean Bryan]

I don't know if this has been mentioned already, but one thing I picked up on my 2nd viewing is...

Bucky knew Cap was not coming back when Cap went to return the stones (at least not the way Bruce and Sam were expecting Cap to return). Bucky says something like "I'm gonna miss you, pal," as he shakes hands with Cap before Cap gets on the platform to go on his travels.

It's also why Bucky wasn't as frantic as Sam and Bruce when Cap doesn't return in 5 secs.

Yeah, I figured either Bucky just had a feeling about what his best friend would do given the option to go back or Steve told him his intentions and said his goodbye to Bucky in private.

 

[Lou Sytsma]

Yeah, I figured either Bucky just had a feeling about what his best friend would do given the option to go back or Steve told him his intentions and said his goodbye to Bucky in private.

Agree. Prefer Bucky being able to intuit it.

Somewhat related there was a lot of nonverbal communication throughout the film and especially in the climax. Strange's 'one' to Stark was another great example.

 

[Josh Steinberg]

Nope, it just cancels out the cataclysmic alterations that the Ancient One was worried about.

That would be my interpretation too. The only reason that I think I could be wrong is because on my second viewing I noticed that Banner specifically states to the Ancient One that returning the stones will “clip the branches” - and when he says that and places the astral-projection-stone back into the main timeline, the alternate universe tangent astral projection tentacle disappears. So that’s the cue in the movie. Otherwise I’d agree with your take on it.

 

[Robert Crawford]

Agree. Prefer Bucky being able to intuit it.

Somewhat related there was a lot of nonverbal communication throughout the film and especially in the climax. Strange's 'one' to Stark was another great example.

I'm glad they never fully explained it and left it to the viewer to interpret whatever way they preferred. With that said, the scene had heavy equipment moving Avengers HQ debris in the background so I have to think it's been weeks if not months since the final battle. If true then Bucky and Steve had more than a few conversations since that battle as life-long best friends would do if they survived such horror.

 

[AshJW]

This article appears to have a plausible explanation...

https://www.forbes.com/sites/markhu...lly-a-plot-hole-at-all-spoilers/#30abac919e3d

What do you think?

The point he's making is that since Cap & Tony can go back in time without a platform (from NYC 2012 to NJ 1970) , that's what Old Man Cap does to get back to Bucky / Falcon and sit on the bench.

I guess we’ll never know unless Marvel will address this matter.

 

[Patrick Sun]

I agree. "Noble warrior" Thor never really worked for me. Lebowski Thor may have gone a bit too far in the other direction, with Thor: Ragnarok as the happy medium. But I definitely prefer Lebowski Thor to "noble warrior" Thor.

I think the kids are calling him "Thorbowski" nowadays.

 

[NeilO]

So, for instance, when Thor leaves Asgard with the reality stone in 2013, that branches that version of 2013 into its own alternate reality. But when Cap returns the reality stone (offscreen), that action erases the alternate reality and it's as if there never was an alternate universe.

As mentioned elsewhere, this is a bad example as there probably was no way to return the reality stone and leave the events untouched in 2013. Now if they had taken the Aether from The Collector there probably would have been less impact.

 

[Joe Wong]

I think it’s fair to say that, in general, the 4 films by the Russos and Markus/McFeely are considered among the best and most impactful in the MCU. Their directing and storytelling prowess is quite impressive, to say the least, when you consider the number of plot threads and characters they had to manage, all the way from Winter Soldier to Endgame.

The Russos can be quite efficient in deciding what scenes to include or not. For example, one of my favorite moments in Winter Soldier is when Cap asks Sam where can they get one of those pairs of wings, Sam basically answers, in a fortress, Cap looks at Nat, Nat nonchalantly shrugs, and Cap says to Sam, “shouldn’t be a problem.”

And in the next segment they have the wings. No need to show us how they got them, we just accept that they do, given their skills. Pretty efficient storytelling.

Now in the lead up to Infinity War last year, I was thinking they would show how Thanos obtains the stone from Xandar. But they skip that altogether. While I would have liked to see the fates of the characters played by Glenn Close and John C Reilly, I accepted that it was necessary to advance the story to when Thanos first meets one of the Avengers.

Similarly in Endgame, I would have liked to see the first interactions (which Joss Whedon was a master at depicting in The Avengers) between Cap M and the surviving Avengers (basically, a continuation of the mid-credits scene from Captain Marvel) but they skipped all that. I rue that missed opportunity, but I get that they needed to resolve a lot in those first 20 minutes.

Just goes to show some of the choices made when putting a film together!