UHD Review A Few Words About A few words about...™ - JFK -- in 4k UHD (1 Viewer)

[PatrickDA]

I assume Stone and co. used the new film stocks available in the early-90's after Spielberg, Coppola, Scorsese, et al complained throughout the 80s about how poor the film stocks were. I recall films of '91-'93 looking remarkably better than films I saw in '88-'89.

 

[JoshZ]

That justifies the Atmos remix right there!

I'll try to stay off my soapbox, but I continually feel perplexed that so many here clamor for Atmos remixes - or any remixes, honestly.

When I review discs, I do review the "whiz-bangiest" tracks because that seems to be what people want to hear.

But as for me, I just want the same audio mix that accompanied the film when it ran theatrically.

The problem I have is that, these days, when soundtracks get remixed (whether for Atmos, or even just for 5.1 when coming from an originally stereo source), the mixers usually flatten the dynamic range and drain out all the bass. That's a pervasive problem with modern sound mixing.

 

[owen35]

Thanks RAH for the review on this. I've been waiting to see how the 4K scan looks and now I cannot wait to throw it on the big screen and drink it all in. C'mon post office!!

I would also like to highlight John William's score--probably one of his best. It beautifully sets the tone for the film and provides the emotional undercurrent amongst all of the seriousness of the subject matter.

 

[owen35]

Yeah, it's always kinda hilarious to see chatty character-based movies with fancy new Atmos remixes.

Like "Love Actually". What good does an Atmos remix do for a film like that???

I'm holding out for My Dinner with Andre's Atmos mix.

 

[Dave H]

I think there has to be an issue with the source. I know the 4K of Platoon is based on the 4K transfer Shout released in 2018 that Stone supervised. Blu Ray.com gave that one a good review. Back in the 90’s there was the Pioneer Collectors Edition set that was THX certified that had Robert Richardson go back and retime the whole film, adding more black and white, almost draining some of the color. That version was ignored on subsequent DVD and Blu Ray releases. So I can only assume that the neg of Platoon must have some issues. Maybe RAH knows. Anyway I can’t wait to receive this set.

When I watched Platoon on UHD BD, I felt as if it stemmed from some older source and that it was not a new scan. It seemed someone tried to 'clean it up'. We also know that supervised transfers never tell us to what extent the filmmaker was involved or if there were additional steps done with that person not there. Either way, I really hope Platoon is revisited and properly done one day. It's one of the worst UHD BDs I own.

 

[SD_Brian]

Agreed. I don’t know why he created a Director’s Cut when the theatrical was also a director’s cut. I like it and the DC would work well with an intermission. But the theatrical is a tight 189 minutes.

It's possible the theatrical version was simply cut for time: major studio releases running longer than 3 hours were extremely rare in 1991. Heck, even running longer than 2 hours was a rarity back then! Oh how the times have changed.

 

[DanH1972]

Another vote for the theatrical cut in 4k. It flows better IMHO.

 

[ManW_TheUncool]

Another vote for the theatrical cut in 4k. It flows better IMHO.

NTM saves time on such an already long film... as it's not easy to find the time to sit thru long films no matter how good they may be, afterall... And no, I don't find the solution of just watching 1/2 the film and saving the rest for later compelling at all (unless perhaps there's actually at least a decent intermission built in) -- I have so very much to watch that I'd much rather just watch something else also good-to-great in the shorter time instead...

_Man_

 

[zoetmb]

It's possible the theatrical version was simply cut for time: major studio releases running longer than 3 hours were extremely rare in 1991. Heck, even running longer than 2 hours was a rarity back then! Oh how the times have changed.

Not quite. Half of the top 10 films in the U.S. of 1991 were over 2 hours. Films over 3 hours were always rare.

Terminator 2: 2:17
Robin Hood: Prince of Thieves: 2:23
Beauty and the Beast: 1:24
Hook 2:22
The Silence of the Lambs 1:58
JFK 3:09
The Naked Gun 2½: The Smell of Fear 1:25
The Addams Family 1:39
Cape Fear 2:08
Hot Shots! 1:24

Two years ago, Newsweek published a list of the 20 longest films. They only included English-language films and they missed some, but here's their list:

Cleopatra 4:08 (1963). (Newsweek claims it was 4:08, Wikipedia says it was 4:11, IMDB says it was 3:12, the Blu-ray packaging says 4:11)
Gone With the Wind: 3:58 (1939)
Once Upon a Time in America 3:49 (1984)
Lawrence of Arabia 3:36 (1962)
Ben Hur 3:32 (1959)
The Irishman 3:29 (2019)
Apocalypse Now 3:22 (1979)
Lord of the Rings: Return of the King 3:21 (2003)
The Godfather Part II 3:20 (1974)
Spartacus 3:17 (1960)
Schindler's List 3:15 (1993)
Titanic 3:14 (1997)
The Right Stuff 3:13 (1983)
The Green Mile 3:09 (1999)
JFK 3:09 (1991)
Magnolia 3:08 (1999)
King Kong 3:05 (2005)
The Deer Hunter 3:02 (1978)
Dances with Wolves 3:01 (1990)
The Wolf of Wall Street 3:00 (2013)

They missed:
Zack Snyder's Justice League 4:02 (2021)
Hamlet 4:02 (1996)
The Ten Commandments 3:40 (1956)
Dr. Zhivago 3:17 (1965)
Gandhi 3:11 (1982)
Magnolia 3:08 (1999)
Pearl Harbor 3:03 (2001)
Avengers: Endgame 3:01 (2019)

And:
Oppenheimer 3:00 (2023)

And there's probably some others that are missing. But on these lists, we have a total of 29 films over 84 years. Films over three hours have always been a rarity. The 1990's actually saw the highest number of films over three hours.

By decade:
1930's: 1
1940's: 0
1950's: 2
1960's: 4
1970's: 3
1980's: 3
1990's: 8
2000's: 3
2010's: 3
2020'2: 2

 

[SD_Brian]

Also:
Avatar: The Way of Water 3:12 (2022)
Babylon 3:09 (2022)
Killers of the Flower Moon 3:26 (2023)

With at least 5 in the first 4 years, the 2020s are on pace to outdo the 1990s.

 

[ManW_TheUncool]

Too often, the longer version really isn't substantially better anyway (and sometimes, actually worse). Yeah, they may add some good/interesting elements, etc, but often do not make the film truly better (at least the way they might be reinserted). Yes, good to have the option (in best quality) of course, but not always truly necessary me thinks, especially for repeat viewings... like for the 10th or 20th time or more, LOL...

_Man_

 

[owen35]

Also:
Avatar: The Way of Water 3:12 (2022)
Babylon 3:09 (2022)
Killers of the Flower Moon 3:26 (2023)

With at least 5 in the first 4 years, the 2020s are on pace to outdo the 1990s.

Let's not forget:
Heaven's Gate 3:36 (1980)
Ryan's Daughter 3:20 (1970)

 

[AlexNH]

Oliver Stone Facebook Post on Shout! JFK Release : "......We had to make a decision as to which version to release on 4K UHD, and we chose the director’s cut, which is 17 minutes longer. I do understand that the theatrical cut is preferred by many, but this was a case where we felt giving the audience “more” with the longer version was the right decision. There was simply not enough money to release both. " ..... "With the uncertainty of fickle streaming services, I’m especially grateful for companies like Shout! Factory, who understands the importance of physical media. I pray we never lose that. The landscape is changing quickly, and I fear the disappearance of many non-blockbuster-type films; in fact, a whole body of work is at stake. The big studios have abandoned much of their responsibility in this regard. "

 

[Konstantinos]

If you ask me, the theatrical cut should be available in any film, in the best possible format, and then director's/extended cuts offered as curiosities..

 

[James Miller]

Just received and noticed disc 3 (blu ray theatrical cut) does NOT say it is from the new 2023 4k scan) where it does explicitly say that for disc 2 (blu ray directors cut). Shouts website does say that all versions are from the 2023 5k scan but it is disconcerting. I'm already on the fence on whether to return this as theatrical is perplexingly not provided in 4k at all.... so I guess I'm just hoping someone who had received and watched can confirm it is from the new scan and not a repackaged previous release.

 

[Konstantinos]

Can you go to this specific frame in the theatrical cut blu-ray?
If it's like the more saturated image, then it's the new scan.

JFK - Imgsli

imgsli.com

 

[ManW_TheUncool]

Can you go to this specific frame in the theatrical cut blu-ray?
If it's like the more saturated image, then it's the new scan.

JFK - Imgsli

imgsli.com

Hard to tell from that, but is it merely color saturation diff alone? Certainly a very substantial diff anyway, if that screencap comparison's reliable.

_Man_

 

[SD_Brian]

if that screencap comparison's reliable.

If I've learned nothing else from this forum, it's that screencap comparisons are ALWAYS reliable.

 

[PatrickDA]

Just received and noticed disc 3 (blu ray theatrical cut) does NOT say it is from the new 2023 4k scan) where it does explicitly say that for disc 2 (blu ray directors cut). Shouts website does say that all versions are from the 2023 5k scan but it is disconcerting. I'm already on the fence on whether to return this as theatrical is perplexingly not provided in 4k at all.... so I guess I'm just hoping someone who had received and watched can confirm it is from the new scan and not a repackaged previous release.

Stone said today on his Facebook page the theatrical cut is from the 4K scan.

"Excited to announce that Shout! Factory, today, December 19, will be releasing a beautiful new collector’s edition of our 1991 film, “JFK,” just in time for the holidays. Scanned from the original camera negative, this is the first new video master of “JFK” since the late 1990s and is the absolute best the film has ever looked. Both the director’s cut and theatrical version have been remastered and are included in this four-disc set.

We had to make a decision as to which version to release on 4K UHD, and we chose the director’s cut, which is 17 minutes longer. I do understand that the theatrical cut is preferred by many, but this was a case where we felt giving the audience “more” with the longer version was the right decision. There was simply not enough money to release both.

However, the remastered version of the theatrical cut is included on Blu-ray. Shout! Factory also created new bonus features -- interviews with myself and collaborators like cinematographer Bob Richardson, editor Hank Corwin, producer Clayton Townsend, special effects and makeup artist Gordon Smith, and Dallas location manager Patty Hess, all of them informative. With the uncertainty of fickle streaming services, I’m especially grateful for companies like Shout! Factory, who understands the importance of physical media. I pray we never lose that. The landscape is changing quickly, and I fear the disappearance of many non-blockbuster-type films; in fact, a whole body of work is at stake. The big studios have abandoned much of their responsibility in this regard. However, I keep my hopes up. I’m looking forward to hearing your thoughts after you’ve watched."

 

[PMF]

Stone said today on his Facebook page the theatrical cut is from the 4K scan.
[…]With the uncertainty of fickle streaming services, I’m especially grateful for companies like Shout! Factory, who understands the importance of physical media. I pray we never lose that.”[…]

Thank you Oliver Stone for joining the fight to save Physical Media. THIS from a two-time Oscar winning director. Based solely on this quote, alone, I’m stepping up my purchase of JFK in 4K/UHD; despite my earlier misgivings concerning price-point. Support is on the way.