A Few Words About A few words about...™ Hello, Dolly! -- in Blu-ray (1 Viewer)

[haineshisway]

"Someone ought to open up a window."


Here we go again. Unbelievable really. You bump this two year-old thread for what reason? The caps herein, as has been pointed out by several, are YELLOW and don't reflect the transfer at ALL. And the skies in his caps are not white, they're YELLOW - take away the yellow and what do you get? Blue, in those specific shots. In other shots the day is obviously overcast as has been proven to you over and over and over and over and over, and which you will always ignore, for whatever reasons. The Blu-ray has glorious blue skies where there were blue skies, and white skies where there were white skies. All those specific shots were pointed out to you in other threads and there were examples of them.


Well, you got what you wanted in bumping the thread, so that's good.

 

[Vahan_Nisanain]

It should be noted that this was the VERY first film to have a VHS and Beta release here in the states. It was on the Magnetic Video label.


Gee, I can only imagine how the 1977 transfer looked like.

 

[Kyrsten Brad]

Brad here. Funny, I just watched this Blu myself (after getting it back from our neighbor Joan who first saw this movie back in 1969 as a 24 y/o young lady with her new husband. She's 70 now and husband us deceased)

RAH, as usual is spot on. Love this Blu.

 

[OliverK]

I spoke to somebody who used to work in timing film prints and he has a pretty good eye for these things without having to consult screenshots.


He mentioned Hello Dolly! as still looking pleasing overall but ultimately not being timed correctly because of blown out whites and a picture that leans to the yellow side compared to all previous version of the movie (film prints in 35 and 70mm, DVD, HD) that he knows. I am only famiiar with the 70mm and HD version and indeed there is more to be seen in the highest IRE's in both the 70mm version and the HD version as has also been demonstrated in these accurate screencaps of the BD and the DVD that seems to have the same timing as my HD recording, like them or not. Also the colors of the two versions look like that on my calibrated setup, no surprises there:

http://www.caps-a-holic.com/hd_vergleiche/multi_comparison.php?art=part&x=600&y=259&action=1&image=2&hd_multiID=538&cap1=20931&cap2=20941&disc1=2261&disc2=2262&lossless=#vergleich


Obviously detail and textures are such a huuuuge improvement over previous versions that it is almost impossible to go back even to the previous HD version but the changes are there including the sky that kind of loses its color compared to the DVD/HD version.

 

[classicmovieguy]

I really need to spin this disc again soon... It's truly a jaw-dropping transfer; the perfect example of how the classics can glitter anew on Blu-ray.

 

[Dr Griffin]

"Someone ought to open up a window."


Here we go again. Unbelievable really. You bump this two year-old thread for what reason? The caps herein, as has been pointed out by several, are YELLOW and don't reflect the transfer at ALL. And the skies in his caps are not white, they're YELLOW - take away the yellow and what do you get? Blue, in those specific shots. In other shots the day is obviously overcast as has been proven to you over and over and over and over and over, and which you will always ignore, for whatever reasons. The Blu-ray has glorious blue skies where there were blue skies, and white skies where there were white skies. All those specific shots were pointed out to you in other threads and there were examples of them.


Well, you got what you wanted in bumping the thread, so that's good.

I spoke to somebody who used to work in timing film prints and he has a pretty good eye for these things without having to consult screenshots.


He mentioned Hello Dolly! as still looking pleasing overall but ultimately not being timed correctly because of blown out whites and a picture that leans to the yellow side compared to all previous version of the movie (film prints in 35 and 70mm, DVD, HD) that he knows. I am only famiiar with the 70mm and HD version and indeed there is more to be seen in the highest IRE's in both the 70mm version and the HD version as has also been demonstrated in these accurate screencaps of the BD and the DVD that seems to have the same timing as my HD recording, like them or not. Also the colors of the two versions look like that on my calibrated setup, no surprises there:

http://www.caps-a-holic.com/hd_vergleiche/multi_comparison.php?art=part&x=600&y=259&action=1&image=2&hd_multiID=538&cap1=20931&cap2=20941&disc1=2261&disc2=2262&lossless=#vergleich


Obviously detail and textures are such a huuuuge improvement over previous versions that it is almost impossible to go back even to the previous HD version but the changes are there including the sky that kind of loses its color compared to the DVD/HD version.

Am I missing something, or just getting lost in the facts? Are those Caps-A-Holics caps too yellow or the disc or both, in reference to the original color?

 

[Robert Harris]

It should be noted that this was the VERY first film to have a VHS and Beta release here in the states. It was on the Magnetic Video label.

Gee, I can only imagine how the 1977 transfer looked like.

No need to imagine. Tell him.

From a panned and scanned 35 reduction element.

 

[Reed Grele]

Old threads resurrected are wonderful! Just about coincides with my monthly Todd-AO "fix". Thanks to all for making my night.

 

[Reed Grele]

The only "blown out whites" That I saw during tonight's viewing was when I'd glance over at my partner and observed the eyeballs popping out of his head. Fortunately, this only happens when we watch certain Blu-rays that have been given a "5" (or higher) RAH rating.

 

[OliverK]

Am I missing something, or just getting lost in the facts? Are those Caps-A-Holics caps too yellow or the disc or both, in reference to the original color?

They are more yellow than the DVD and the HD-version previously aired on TV and more yellow than the 70mm print that I saw.

That's a fact and the question which version is right is an interesting one that is rather hard to answer as you can see in this thread


I am pretty sure that this is let's say a bit of a new look for Hello Dolly! but then I have a much bigger issue with other titles. It is just not correct to say that these caps are not accurate because when I pause both my versions of Hello Dolly! and switch back and forth I get the same differences as can be seen in the caps - on calibrated monitors/projectors of course.

 

[Noel Aguirre]

I love it- the clothes are blue yet the sky is white and the finale was shot on an overcast day. Who knew? I'm glad I'm not the only seeing this. And I have a 4K tri-luminous display I'm viewing this on.

 

[OliverK]

I love it- the clothes are blue yet the sky is white and the finale was shot on an overcast day. Who knew? I'm glad I'm not the only seeing this. And I have a 4K tri-luminous display I'm viewing this on.

If you think Hello, Dolly! is bad look at The King and I or this one:


http://www.caps-a-holic.com/hd_vergleiche/multi_comparison.php?art=part&x=570&y=268&action=1&image=0&hd_multiID=2448&cap1=56552&cap2=56563&disc1=6009&disc2=6010&lossless=#vergleich


In general we seem to have a generation of colorists these days that have a very different idea of how classic films should look.


Then you have titles like Dr. Zhivago, King of Kings or The Ten Commandments and colors, gamma and contrast seem to be spot on. I would hope that the colorists who did those movies got more work.

 

[Robert Harris]

If you think Hello, Dolly! is bad look at The King and I or this one:

http://www.caps-a-holic.com/hd_vergleiche/multi_comparison.php?art=part&x=570&y=268&action=1&image=0&hd_multiID=2448&cap1=56552&cap2=56563&disc1=6009&disc2=6010&lossless=#vergleich

In general we seem to have a generation of colorists these days that have a very different idea of how classic films should look.

Then you have titles like Dr. Zhivago, King of Kings or The Ten Commandments and colors, gamma and contrast seem to be spot on. I would hope that the colorists who did those movies got more work.

It's not merely a situation of selection or fate of which colorist gets a project.

One must be cognizant of overriding problems.

Availability and condition of elements, budget, necessity, desire, selection of overall post facility, selection of scanner, and supervisory personnel.

RAH

 

[OliverK]

It's not merely a situation of selection or fate of which colorist gets a project.

One must be cognizant of overriding problems.

Availability and condition of elements, budget, necessity, desire, selection of overall post facility, selection of scanner, and supervisory personnel.

RAH

Those are certainly valid points and some good food for thought - if one ingredient is missing that could be enough to negate all the other time and money spent on such a release.


Regarding the choice of colorist(s) I thought that The Ten Commandments (1956) was very impressive as from what I hear the negative stock was in very problematic shape and of course prone to the usual fading of Eastman negative stock of the time.

 

[Robert Harris]

Those are certainly valid points and some good food for thought - if one ingredient is missing that could be enough to negate all the other time and money spent on such a release.

Regarding the choice of colorist(s) I thought that The Ten Commandments (1956) was very impressive as from what I hear the negative stock was in very problematic shape and of course prone to the usual fading of Eastman negative stock of the time.

Shot on 5248. The restorative process used for TC followed what I had done with Williamsburg: The Story of a Patriot, in 2006. Same process used for Noth by Northwest.
Currently in use on Spartacus.

RAH

 

[Konstantinos]

It's not merely a situation of selection or fate of which colorist gets a project.

One must be cognizant of overriding problems.

Availability and condition of elements, budget, necessity, desire, selection of overall post facility, selection of scanner, and supervisory personnel.

RAH

So, you're suggesting that the blue tint in King and I is a result of bad condition of elements, low budget, low desire, bad scanner etc. etc.?

Unless you're pleased with the result (I'm sorry, i don't know your views on the specific matter)


edit: Oh, i withdraw my question since I found this post of yours:

RAH has no expert opinion, as he has neither researched the film nor viewed a dye transfer print. Much like viewing screen caps, I don't like to guess.

 

[Robert Harris]

So, you're suggesting that the blue tint in King and I is a result of bad condition of elements, low budget, low desire, bad scanner etc. etc.?

Unless you're pleased with the result (I'm sorry, i don't know your views on the specific matter)


edit: Oh, i withdraw my question since I found this post of yours:

I don't recall mentioning King & I.


RAH

 

[Peter Apruzzese]

Shot on 5248. The restorative process used for TC followed what I had done with Williamsburg: The Story of a Patriot, in 2006. Same process used for Noth by Northwest.
Currently in use on Spartacus.

RAH

Pull quote...

 

[OliverK]

Shot on 5248. The restorative process used for TC followed what I had done with Williamsburg: The Story of a Patriot, in 2006. Same process used for Noth by Northwest.
Currently in use on Spartacus.

RAH

And the end result is beautiful.


I'd say that Fox should let you have a very close look at The King and I and its colors, I have a feeling (and the hope) that the end result would not be what we see on the current Blu-ray.


As for Spartacus I am looking forward to the UHD Blu-ray. From what I have seen in three different 70mm prints the wait will be worth it!

 

[RMajidi]

As for Spartacus I am looking forward to the UHD Blu-ray. From what I have seen in three different 70mm prints the wait will be worth it!

I'm hopeful that Spartacus will be for UHD, what Lawrence of Arabia was for 1080p Blu-ray.

...and to keep it relevant to this thread, I love my Blu of Hello Dolly!