A Few Words About A few words about...™ Heaven's Gate -- in Blu-ray (1 Viewer)

[cinerama10]

I also saw the film in 70mm on its first public screening in NYC.The cinema was almost empty as the reviews from the previous night's premiere, had already made the papers. I heard one audience member asking a stranger if he had seen the new York Times review that morning? I was a huge fan of Michael Cimino after being mesmerised by his THE DEER HUNTER (also a 70mm release).The film was later advertised to be shown for two weeks only to satisfy the many people who had bought tickets in advance. Personally I was bored by the whole film despite it's stunning photography and cast. The opening University scene did go on for too long. I was not surprised that the film failed badly at the box office.Later viewings on video did nothing for me to change my mind..Maybe today I could have a different view as some films do improve with age. The film was however a very successful in France.

 

[ljgranberry]

I think the film is a masterpiece, although I can understand why it's far from universally acknowledged as such. Seeing it on a big screen this week in Dallas was a glorious experience. With the anti-immigration diatribes coming from the right the past few years, the film is unfortunately timely in ways I wish it wasn't. Those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

 

[Malcolm Bmoor]

Here in the UK we are seeing the accuracy of Mr Cimino's ideas.


This is the latest picture of a Eurostar, just out of the channel tunnel, on its way to London's St Pancras International station.

 

[ljgranberry]

Considering the rhetoric from Mr. Trump, the Republican frontrunner, gives this film an added resonance. Those who don't recall history are doomed to repeat it.

 

[Allansfirebird]

Considering the rhetoric from Mr. Trump, the Republican frontrunner, gives this film an added resonance. Those who don't recall history are doomed to repeat it.

We may want to go ahead and stop the political references now, for I feel this could be a slippery slope...

 

[Peter Apruzzese]

Considering the rhetoric from Mr. Trump, the Republican frontrunner, gives this film an added resonance. Those who don't recall history are doomed to repeat it.

Those who post the same political commentary again and again are likely to get a nudge from a moderator.

 

[Lord Dalek]

So is this really 5.1? The subwoofer track is dead silent from what I've seen.

 

[allanfisch]

" With the original negative used for the re-cutting, and previous home video versions taken from a used 70mm print, we finally have the opportunity to see the film with Vilmos Zsigmond's cinematography coming to the fore. "

Just a note about the prior transfer,since it was among the last I supervised during my MGM career. It was not a transfer of a 70mm print, but rather we used a 35mm low-contrast print, the only existing element of the "long version" at the time that was suitable for telecine. Vilmos supervised the entire transfer from start to finish. I can't remember now, but does anyone know if the original prints had subtitles for the non-English dialogue scenes? the final creation of the laserdisc submasters happened after my departure, and the laserdisc, which I'm now watching, does not have any.

 

[Peter Apruzzese]

Yes, the 70mm prints of the long version contained subtitles. The original New York City print screened last year (or the year before) at the AFI and the subtitles were on it.

 

[allanfisch]

How do we know whether either of those is accurate ot the original photographic intention? You can't use an old DVD or Laserdisc as a reference source.
My question is when did Cimino decide that the movie should have such vibrant colors - when he made it, or only recently? Filmmakers go in with their digital toolkits and radically alter the look of their old movies all the time these days.
I'll give it this: I didn't spot any goddamned teal in this transfer. That was a relief. Still, the other colors frequently look electronically boosted to me, not like natural photochemical colors.

More history here. Image did their own transfer in the early 90s. I remastered it in 1996/97 to create new masters including 16/9(no HD yet)it was re-issued on laserdisc by Image in 97, from the master I created with Vilmos. This is also the transfer, though 16/9, that went on the first DVD release. Please also remember, that this was before the days of extensive digital restoration, though it was transferred on a state of the art scanner)a spirit, I think). I took a literal shellacking on the costs of this project I'm sure as we did spend a great deal of money to get it was "right" as possible for the time and materials we had to work with.

 

[allanfisch]

Yes, the 70mm prints of the long version contained subtitles. The original New York City print screened last year (or the year before) at the AFI and the subtitles were on it.

I thought so, it seems really odd without them. I was gone by the time the final dubs were made for laser, so I'm not sure why they left them off.

 

[Race Bannon]

Considering the rhetoric from Mr. Trump, the Republican frontrunner, gives this film an added resonance. Those who don't recall history are doomed to repeat it.

No interest in the current political discussion, but as a point of interest, the "immigrant" angle was very likely just shoe-horned into the story of Heaven's Gate. There's almost no historical basis for it -- the war was amongst the different factions, but I have read that the immigrant angle was likely invented to provide some emotional heft that people of our time could relate to.

 

[Malcolm Bmoor]

Whatever its merits as a film, and it has some, please remember that historical accuracy isn't even at the bottom of its list of intentions.

If you haven't read FINAL CUT it details exactly how Mr Cimino approached what actually happened during the Johnson County episode - It most certainly wasn't a war.

I saw the short version in 70mm when it arrived in the UK and then some years later saw the long version, also in 70mm, at the NFT. Yes, I understand that being conceived at that pace and length the drastic trims altered that concept. But you have to question the validity of that original concept, which we've learned was entirely a fabrication by a man whose attitude to truth and accuracy in any field is now understood.

Having recovered from it's sheer length I knew that would never see it again.

I believe there to be an important difference in how we react to a film that is presented as a fiction and one that has unfulfilled pretensions of historical representation.

 

[willyTass]

Be glad to re-buy this in UHD/4K , not too impressed with Criterions compression

 

[Lord Dalek]

So is this really 5.1? The subwoofer track is dead silent from what I've seen.

Still throwing this question out there people.

Be glad to re-buy this in UHD/4K , not too impressed with Criterions compression

That ain't compression, its Vilmos Zsigmond.

 

[PMF]

"Heaven's Gate" was always a fascinating film for me, since it's original release. Lengthy at times, but so what. I loved its reach and its big canvas. Was this Cimino's "Ishtar"; "Ryan's Daughter" or "Once Upon a Time in America"? Whatever aspects of misinterpretations, misdirected expectations, bad reviews, et al; I was not able to shake its imagery and beauty. Maybe it was impossible for me to see it as the critics and/or audience had; as I could always view a film for its possibilities or as that of an editor who never went to film school. Was it narratively a complete and perfect masterpiece? Perhaps not; but it certainly was unique. Unquestionably, though, "Heaven's Gate" was a masterpiece in terms of its visual and its aesthetic. I revisited "Heaven's Gate" in all its various Home Theater incarnations; short of Laser Discs; and, therefore, revisited it at different stages of my life. Not once was I able to turn it off.

I think its a shame that "Heaven's Gate" toppled Cimino; and United Artists, for that matter. I always look at this film and wonder what other great stories and visions had Cimino in store for us; were it not for its backlash. I look at this film and always shake my head, as the backlash towards Cimino was such that Oscar and its nominations seemed also to undeservedly punish many others involved whose work in Art Direction, Set Direction, Costume Design, Original Score and Sound were top drawer. But, most of all, is that the Academy truly cheated Vilmos Zsigmond out of a nomination. This work of Mr. Zsigmond was fully breathtaking and undeniably "Heaven" sent. This was the kind of work that easily inspires and places one in a dream of buying some property, building a log cabin and living a quieter, more remote life in Wyoming (preferably with Isabelle Huppert); cense the bloodshed.

I bought Criterion's BD of "Heaven's Gate" upon its release and never thought once about its price.
Despite its controversies and/or criticisms, "Heaven's Gate" was absolutely well-deserving of Criterion's red-carpet treatment. Criterion delivered the goods and this title doesn't get dusty on my shelves. With that said, I would certainly place "Heaven's Gate" as a top nominee for UHD/4K, as well and in accordance to willyTass's Post of #334.

BOTTOM LINE:
It would be nothing short of foolhardy in thinking that Mr. Cimino set out to make a work of schlock.
This architect turned film-maker had a scope of observations that makes this film well-worth the journey.
"Heaven's Gate" - despite its initial backlash and criticisms - has survived for over 35 years.
It has never disappeared.
And in the end, no matter what your stances, it is mandatory viewing.

 

[Peter Neski]

for those who don't like the Criterion BR with Ciminos new transfer ,there's always the transfer on VUDU also HD
I like both

 

[Bob Cashill]

OT but thanks to Shout Factory's new Blu-ray, Cimino's THE SICILIAN (1987) has finally received its due on disc. It's a good, finally widescreen rendering of his 146m cut, with Dolby 5.1 audio. No extras but the film itself (one that improves on subsequent viewings) is welcome.

 

[Bob Cashill]

If you must, the short version of HEAVEN'S GATE is airing here, pan/scanned: http://ktla.thistv.com/view/movie/840/Heaven’s Gate

 

[Vincent_P]

The short version is interesting in that it has several minutes of unique footage and few alternate takes (I think the take of the immigrant roping the cattle before Walken's Nate rides up is better in the short version, it's a wider shot and looks nicer than the take used in the long cut). I'd love to see it released on its own for completion's sake, perhaps with the FINAL CUT documentary? I wonder how the rights for such a possible release might work given that Criterion has the Cimino-approved slightly-altered long cut.

Vincent