What's new

JoshZ

Senior HTF Member
Joined
May 26, 2012
Messages
2,379
Location
Boston
Real Name
Joshua Zyber
I can't believe I live in a world where it makes financial sense to do a bespoke 4K rescan of Robin Hood: Prince of Thieves, a critically panned, kind of forgotten cult film, for a limited UK only release. But it somehow doesn't make financial sense to do a new scan for Aliens, an Oscar nominated, highly anticipated, extremely popular blockbuster that is getting a world-wide release.

To be fair here, Robin Hood: Prince of Thieves may have been critically panned, but was a significant blockbuster hit, the second highest-grossing film of 1991 (behind Cameron's Terminator 2, ironically), and I believe has always performed well on home video. I would not call it a cult film any more than I would call Aliens a cult film.
 

Robert Harris

Archivist
Reviewer
Senior HTF Member
Joined
Feb 8, 1999
Messages
18,720
Real Name
Robert Harris
I can't believe I live in a world where it makes financial sense to do a bespoke 4K rescan of Robin Hood: Prince of Thieves, a critically panned, kind of forgotten cult film, for a limited UK only release. But it somehow doesn't make financial sense to do a new scan for Aliens, an Oscar nominated, highly anticipated, extremely popular blockbuster that is getting a world-wide release.
I don’t recall any mention of the decision(s) having financial attributes.
 

Keith Cobby

Senior HTF Member
Joined
Jan 8, 2013
Messages
4,597
Location
Kent "The Garden of England", UK
Real Name
Keith Cobby
I think Cameron has treated his home video audience with contempt. Not only have we had to wait many years for releases, it transpires that they are not as good as they might be. He could easily have provided some funding for new scans, it's not that he has an extensive filmography.
 

Wes Candela

Premium
Joined
Nov 2, 2012
Messages
568
Location
New York, NY
Real Name
Wes Candela
If he's re-doing Terminator 2, let's hope that means the color will stick to the original blue tint for night and not that teal nonsense. Hopefully this re-master also means lots of detail, but not artificial plastic-y looking. Are there any rumors on a release date for Terminator 2? I wonder if there's any chance for also getting a new Terminator 4K re-master with the orignal color timing restored (and lots of extra detail, too, of course)?

I can understand the concern about the grain issue with Aliens, but it is nice to know that it retains detail and that the colors are back closer to the DVD's more accurate blue color timing, and not the less-blue-more-teal of the later Blu-ray.
I can’t say I know much about the Terminator 2 release date or the Terminator release date but my understanding is both are getting released in 4K.
The Terminator should look outstanding, and Terminator 2 should look beautiful in my opinion

we’re gonna have to wait to see….
However, I’ve been saying this for about 20 years now…

Never underestimate Cameron.
 

Wes Candela

Premium
Joined
Nov 2, 2012
Messages
568
Location
New York, NY
Real Name
Wes Candela
The bootleg Blu Ray exists (and looks better) and the Blu Ray of Aliens exists (and looks better) so, no, there is no way I am buying this crap. It's pretty simple really. Also, disc buying is an ethusiast market at this point. Catering to the masses is pointless since they don't buy discs. Even these popular titles will sell a fraction of what a disc sold in the past...
I don’t know, man. you’re on the Home Theater Forum
I think I can safely say we all enjoy seeing films, presented in greater clarity with the newest innovations in technology

It’s true that 4K is not selling like Blu-ray or DVD, but then streaming wasn’t available on that level. It is now when Blu-ray and DVD premiered.

Also, the people who are settling for watching films streaming are watching a movie at roughly half the quality of what a physical disc offers visually and sonically.

But I think you’re being pretty clear here that you don’t want to buy these discs so point taken.

To each their own.

On a lighter note, my Aliens 4K UHD finally arrived two days ago from the link here on Home Theater Forum.

“Nuke it from orbit, it’s the only way to be sure.”
 
Last edited:

Ronald Epstein

Founder
Owner
Moderator
Senior HTF Member
Joined
Jul 3, 1997
Messages
67,255
Real Name
Ronald Epstein
Also, the people that are settling for watching films streaming are watching a movie at roughly 15% quality of what a physical disc can offer visually and sonically.

Where exactly are you pulling that number from? Where is that stated as fact? It seems like an awfully low number.
 

Wes Candela

Premium
Joined
Nov 2, 2012
Messages
568
Location
New York, NY
Real Name
Wes Candela
Where exactly are you pulling that number from? Where is that stated as fact? It seems like an awfully low number.
Well, I’m saying roughly because the physical disk can carry up to 90 GB web download is approximately 20 GB

so based on that math, the video bit rate is much less and you're not getting a lossless Dolby Atmos track

Just an approximation


but I will correct that for you and readers


(I’ve changed my statement to roughly half the quality of a physical disc)
 

Wes Candela

Premium
Joined
Nov 2, 2012
Messages
568
Location
New York, NY
Real Name
Wes Candela
Where exactly are you pulling that number from? Where is that stated as fact? It seems like an awfully low number.

Ron,
I actually altered this number before you responded to it from 15% to 25% to be a little more accurate but as I stated above, I've also just changed it again to half the quality
 

Ronald Epstein

Founder
Owner
Moderator
Senior HTF Member
Joined
Jul 3, 1997
Messages
67,255
Real Name
Ronald Epstein
Ron,
I actually altered this number before you responded to it from 15% to 25% to be a little more accurate but as I stated above, I've also just changed it again to half the quality

Wes,

I don't have the numbers on this. I can't say you are right or wrong. However, even 25% seems very low. I have seen streamed movies in 4k that look almost indistinguishable from the disc. That's coming off of iTunes on an Apple TV, which is known to be the best streaming device.
 

SPlow67

Auditioning
Joined
Mar 24, 2024
Messages
4
Real Name
Samuel
I don’t recall any mention of the decision(s) having financial attributes.
I was referring to your point about not spending 30-40k in expenditures to re-scan Aliens, because Aliens wouldn't sell enough to make that worth it. I apologize if I misunderstood
 

Worth

Senior HTF Member
Joined
Jul 17, 2009
Messages
5,298
Real Name
Nick Dobbs
I think Cameron has treated his home video audience with contempt. Not only have we had to wait many years for releases, it transpires that they are not as good as they might be. He could easily have provided some funding for new scans, it's not that he has an extensive filmography.
Maybe he's a bit cash-strapped at the moment.
 

Worth

Senior HTF Member
Joined
Jul 17, 2009
Messages
5,298
Real Name
Nick Dobbs
Wes,

I don't have the numbers on this. I can't say you are right or wrong. However, even 25% seems very low. I have seen streamed movies in 4k that look almost indistinguishable from the disc. That's coming off of iTunes on an Apple TV, which is known to be the best streaming device.
Yes, bit rate is not the only gauge of picture quality. While I do think there is some difference between streaming and disc, I think even the most ardent videophiles would have a tough time telling which is which in a double-blind test.
 

Robert Crawford

Crawdaddy
Moderator
Patron
Senior HTF Member
Joined
Dec 9, 1998
Messages
68,500
Location
Michigan
Real Name
Robert
Yes, bit rate is not the only gauge of picture quality. While I do think there is some difference between streaming and disc, I think even the most ardent videophiles would have a tough time telling which is which in a double-blind test.
Yup!
 

dpippel

Yoyodyne Propulsion Systems
Supporter
Senior HTF Member
Joined
Feb 24, 2000
Messages
12,399
Location
Sonora Norte
Real Name
Doug
Yes, bit rate is not the only gauge of picture quality. While I do think there is some difference between streaming and disc, I think even the most ardent videophiles would have a tough time telling which is which in a double-blind test.
This conversation is also assuming a perfect scenario. There are so many links in the streaming chain that can affect bitrate and AV quality - ISP throughput, ISP throttling, in-home network speed, streaming device, device setup, time of day, etc., etc. What one viewer sees and hears may not be the same as the neighbor two blocks away. There is a LOT of variability.
 

JohnRice

Bounded In a Nutshell
Premium
Ambassador
HW Reviewer
Senior HTF Member
Joined
Jun 20, 2000
Messages
18,934
Location
A Mile High
Real Name
John
This conversation is also assuming a perfect scenario. There are so many links in the streaming chain that can affect bitrate and AV quality - ISP throughput, ISP throttling, in-home network speed, streaming device, device setup, time of day, etc., etc. What one viewer sees and hears may not be the same as the neighbor two blocks away. There is a LOT of variability.
I was going to mention that myself, plus even though a 4 layer BR disc can hold up to 100GB, it's virtually unheard of for the feature itself to occupy 90GB. So that stat strikes me as motivated reasoning.

For me, with my HT that is more audio capable than video (with a 65" QLED) and Gb internet with ethernet to my AppleTV 4K, I hardly see any real visual difference, but I do hear an audio difference, at least with action movies. So, in general, I've stopped buying streaming versions of action movies.
 

Wes Candela

Premium
Joined
Nov 2, 2012
Messages
568
Location
New York, NY
Real Name
Wes Candela
Wes,

I don't have the numbers on this. I can't say you are right or wrong. However, even 25% seems very low. I have seen streamed movies in 4k that look almost indistinguishable from the disc. That's coming off of iTunes on an Apple TV, which is known to be the best streaming device.
Hey Ron, oh agreed...I think Apple 4K looks great and Movies Anywhere
tgey look and sound great.

I think HEVC codec and faster int speeds have allowed for streaming videos to look as good as they do,

the math is for example...

A film streaming in 4K (depending on the length and content of film)

Approximately 20gb.., at 640kbps

On 4K UHD (with the same factors considered as above)

80GB … approximately 50,000kbps to 80,000kbps

Visually your only getting 25% of what the disc offers visually.

Sonically,
An streaming Dolby Digital Plus Atmos track is 600MB at 640kbps

on the UHD, a Dolby trueHD Atmos track 3GB at 5,000kbps or 5mb a sec.

so compared to the web version, you're hearing 10% of the audio quality that the physical disc offers.
 

Wes Candela

Premium
Joined
Nov 2, 2012
Messages
568
Location
New York, NY
Real Name
Wes Candela
Yes, bit rate is not the only gauge of picture quality. While I do think there is some difference between streaming and disc, I think even the most ardent videophiles would have a tough time telling which is which in a double-blind test.
Depends what sequence you’re showing them
 

Wes Candela

Premium
Joined
Nov 2, 2012
Messages
568
Location
New York, NY
Real Name
Wes Candela
I was going to mention that myself, plus even though a 4 layer BR disc can hold up to 100GB, it's virtually unheard of for the feature itself to occupy 90GB. So that stat strikes me as motivated reasoning.

For me, with my HT that is more audio capable than video (with a 65" QLED) and Gb internet with ethernet to my AppleTV 4K, I hardly see any real visual difference, but I do hear an audio difference, at least with action movies. So, in general, I've stopped buying streaming versions of action movies.
In my opinion, you cannot do better than the physical disc.

I don’t spend tons of money on grabbing every 4K out there because I’ve done that with DVD and Blu-ray, OK with getting a Web download from apple If I’m not that interested in the movie

But otherwise, the first few discs I purchased when I got my 4K set up two years ago were

Zack Snyder’s Justice league

Lawrence of Arabia

DUNE part one

and Verigo
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Sign up for our newsletter

and receive essential news, curated deals, and much more







You will only receive emails from us. We will never sell or distribute your email address to third party companies at any time.

Latest Articles

Forum statistics

Threads
357,619
Messages
5,142,411
Members
144,434
Latest member
swethaJK
Recent bookmarks
0
Top