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UHD Review A Few Words About A few words about...™ - True Lies -- in 4k UHD (1 Viewer)

tenia

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I laughed at your medical versus home video analogy in your previous post. We’re talking about home video which is a far cry from the necessary quality control processes needed and utilized in the medical field.
I'm not talking about the "necessary quality control processes". I used to work in detergency before : that already was a far cry aside from this, but we still had structurally the same manufacturing processes overall. Because whether it's medical, detergents, or a video release, the issue isn't about QC processes but ways of working : experiments are experiments, and final products are final products, and you definitely shouldn't be building so much experience on commercial products. That's what experiments are for (notwithstanding that even if True Lies indeed was the 1st remaster prepped up, it wasn't the first Park Road project anyway).

I haven’t watched my disc yet so I don’t have any problem with your discontent with this release.
And it could have my phrasing which wasn't clearly intelligible, hence my additions.

With that said, it’s only a movie which is my only point.
This is a thread dedicated to all things technical about a UHD/BD release, on a dedicated home theater board, so it seems like a fair place to discuss this kind of things, just like you would discuss, I don't know, how gorgeous Straight Story's UHD is.

(And it's not exactly just a movie : it's also an industrial process done to mass-sell us a product and making money out of it, which is also how one can look at this, and why I talked about it this way)
 

Robert Crawford

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I'm not talking about the "necessary quality control processes". I used to work in detergency before : that already was a far cry aside from this, but we still had structurally the same manufacturing processes overall. Because whether it's medical, detergents, or a video release, the issue isn't about QC processes but ways of working : experiments are experiments, and final products are final products, and you definitely shouldn't be building so much experience on commercial products. That's what experiments are for (notwithstanding that even if True Lies indeed was the 1st remaster prepped up, it wasn't the first Park Road project anyway).


And it could have my phrasing which wasn't clearly intelligible, hence my additions.


This is a thread dedicated to all things technical about a UHD/BD release, on a dedicated home theater board, so it seems like a fair place to discuss this kind of things, just like you would discuss, I don't know, how gorgeous Straight Story's UHD is.

(And it's not exactly just a movie : it's also an industrial process done to mass-sell us a product and making money out of it, which is also how one can look at this, and why I talked about it this way)
I’m not taking issue with you discussing movies nor home video in this thread. Again my issue with your post was the inclusion of medical procedures versus home video. That’s it!
 

TonyD

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Anyway…..
Took this a few years ago when we drove through the Keys
It looks a lot smaller then what it seems like in the movie.

IMG_4443.jpeg
 

tenia

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Again my issue with your post was the inclusion of medical procedures versus home video. That’s it!
And again, no problem with that, but it's not medical procedures that I meant to include but manufacturing processes in general (and it just so happens that currently, it's in the medical industry that I'm navigating in those). :)
 

Robert Crawford

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And again, no problem with that, but it's not medical procedures that I meant to include but manufacturing processes in general (and it just so happens that currently, it's in the medical industry that I'm navigating in those). :)
Carry on because your initial post didn’t elaborate as to what you were saying.
 

tenia

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Let's go for the longer version then (won't be a very original post though, as it's nothing specific or new, just R&D project management 101).

When developping something in order to deliver a final product destined to be commercialised, a project can serve as a first step in order to build experience and refine the process : no problem. But then, you don't just put on the market this V0 project as is : you reinject in it what you learnt during the development period and make another loop so that you're not just selling some unfinished messy draft prototype. That's kinda why it's usually related to Research and Development : you don't just do the research and call it a day ! All this should never hit the market, but be invisible to the consumers, let alone the incremental steps in development feeling visible to the public.

Applying this here, if it's what happened to True Lies (and the other movies), it means what is being sold (and when I say "sold", I mean : a product for which consumers are supposed to pay a non-null sum) isn't what Cameron wanted, and not even what Park Road could have done with it, buy only the draft, the v0, the prototypal first step before hitting this right.

The optimistic version of this possibility though is that maybe there'll be in a few years a remaster of the remaster for consumers to double dip !

Edit : don't get me wrong : it does happen that for whatever reason, things need to get rushed and the unfinished stuff will hit the market as is. I've done so. But first, it rarely was a good idea, and second, it... was just this : an unfinished thing that got rushed. I don't think that's a very good sales argument, especially once applied to a $25-30 home video release (in opposition to a consumable good such as an autodishwasher tablet).
 
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JoshZ

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Let's go for the longer version then (won't be a very original post though, as it's nothing specific or new, just R&D project management 101).

When developping something in order to deliver a final product destined to be commercialised, a project can serve as a first step in order to build experience and refine the process : no problem. But then, you don't just put on the market this V0 project as is : you reinject in it what you learnt during the development period and make another loop so that you're not just selling some unfinished messy draft prototype. That's kinda why it's usually related to Research and Development : you don't just do the research and call it a day ! All this should never hit the market, but be invisible to the consumers, let alone the incremental steps in development feeling visible to the public.

What we've been told (whether true or not is unclear) is that True Lies is the first of these four James Cameron movies to undergo the Park Road Post A.I. processing. What we don't know is how many other movies or projects Park Road Post experimented on prior to True Lies. In that respect, True Lies may not have been the v0 prototype. In fact, by the time they started True Lies, Park Road Post may have felt they were fully up-to-speed and ready to go for a commercial project.

That we as consumers don't like the results they delivered is our opinion. It may not be James Cameron's opinion. For all we know, James Cameron could be completely happy with it.

But why would James Cameron be happy with it? Going back to your earlier question, if he's supposedly such a perfectionist, how did he miss all these obvious problems in the new master?

Some possibilities:
1) Perhaps the qualities that James Cameron is looking for in his "ideal" remaster of True Lies are not the same qualities that we home theater fans look for. Likewise, perhaps the flaws that bother us are not of concern to him.
2) Perhaps James Cameron just feels so indifferently towards True Lies that he didn't give it half as much scrutiny as he gave The Abyss, Aliens, or Titanic - all movies that he cares more about.
or
3) Some combination of both 1 and 2.
 

ManW_TheUncool

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And again, no problem with that, but it's not medical procedures that I meant to include but manufacturing processes in general (and it just so happens that currently, it's in the medical industry that I'm navigating in those). :)

I don't know, but maybe it's time to move on and let this go instead of just keep banging one's head against some 3ft thick leaden wall or some such (that even if you have Superman's X-Ray vision, won't be able to see thru and find out), heh... Not like finding out will likely, meaningfully change anything anyway afterall... ;):P

_Man_
 

tenia

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What we've been told (whether true or not is unclear) is that True Lies is the first of these four James Cameron movies to undergo the Park Road Post A.I. processing. What we don't know is how many other movies or projects Park Road Post experimented on prior to True Lies. In that respect, True Lies may not have been the v0 prototype. In fact, by the time they started True Lies, Park Road Post may have felt they were fully up-to-speed and ready to go for a commercial project.
But then again, as for other assumptions/hypothesis, one needs to pick a side as they can't all be right simultaneously. In the present case, either True Lies served as a prototype for Park Road to gain experience and fine-tune their process, and that's why Aliens has less issues and that's why Abyss even less so and Titanic even less so, or they were already up to speed anyway with a fine-tuned process and we wouldn't care which one was done first because the process would already be stable and the differences only marginal from a remaster to the other.
So which is it ?

Some possibilities:
1) Perhaps the qualities that James Cameron is looking for in his "ideal" remaster of True Lies are not the same qualities that we home theater fans look for. Likewise, perhaps the flaws that bother us are not of concern to him.
2) Perhaps James Cameron just feels so indifferently towards True Lies that he didn't give it half as much scrutiny as he gave The Abyss, Aliens, or Titanic - all movies that he cares more about.
or
3) Some combination of both 1 and 2.
I think the 1st point has become quite obvious, but what I argue is the 2nd one, which feels a bit over-analysing things to me. Maybe there's a part of truth in it. Who knows. But maybe it just got slashed with more filtering for no more reason that, say, a random Paramount title will get slashed with artificial filtering and why this one and not that one remains a mystery.

I don't know, but maybe it's time to move on and let this go instead of just keep banging one's head against some 3ft thick leaden wall or some such (that even if you have Superman's X-Ray vision, won't be able to see thru and find out), heh... Not like finding out will likely, meaningfully change anything anyway afterall... ;):P
Oh, I technically moved on weeks ago. Doesn't mean there isn't an interesting, though possibly wider, exchange to be had thanks to this matter. ;)
In my experience, cases like these are intellectually stimulating. Providing cases are made articulately and factually/logically enough, there's nothing wrong for the topic to last a bit.
 

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