A Few Words About A few words about...™ 4k UHD - First Impressions (1 Viewer)

[KMR]

I'm sure that whenever I need to get a new TV I will end up upgrading to 4K--at least for the display. It's gonna be several years... Whether or not I also move to 4K content is another question. Actually, I've still never seen any demos of it. And I don't feel I can really trust what I see in stores: I've rarely seen a UHD display that was set up properly. And 3D? Sheesh--the one time that I found one that was in operation, I thought it was pretty bad. I'm sure that properly set up displays in people's homes are a totally different story, but I don't know anyone who has 3D (or 4K).

 

[Carabimero]

I think you probably meant 2K? (since the "...K" designations measure width, not height...)

Yes I did mean 2K...thanks.

 

[Robert Harris]

Recently discovered at a Best Buy that the much touted Samsung 55/65" panels @ 3-4 grand are now revealing problems after wear.
The color on the sides have shown signs of fading/dimming lights; with the prices going down.
So it seems that Sony's 4K panels remain the best bet, short of one purchasing the OLED.
Meanwhile, if I am reading this thread correctly, RAH is saying that some panels are "faux" 4K's.
"Faux" is for YUCK.
Any votes on the best 4K panel screens?
Meanwhile, I'll keep saving for a projector. Hopefully, by then, we will know more as all gets settled.

I believe I was referring to JVC's pixel shift tech, which they call 4k. Better than HD, at a small portion of the 4K projector price. They're fine units. I'm simply not a smoke and mirrors fan.

Something either is, or is not 4k.

I like the current crop of LG OLEDs. Non-curved.

 

[Robert Harris]

More testing.

True 4k releases, Expendables 3 and Sicario, appear far more highly resolved than the uprezzed titles. There is a difference.

 

[Josh Steinberg]

I'm simply not a smoke and mirrors fan.

Something either is, or is not 4k.

Couldn't the same reasoning be applied to the huge number of 2K titles that are coming out on UHD disc?

I would be very happy to sample UHD BD, but personally have not been able to do so yet. I know I don't have any upgrade plans for the foreseeable future, but as with any cool home video stuff, I'm still interested in getting to know the ins and outs of the format. The number of 2K titles coming out have been the biggest mental hurdle for me to overcome here, in terms of wanting to support the format but having a hard time getting enthusiastic about it. I mean, if my local IMAX theater (which has the largest screen in North America, or so they say), can display movies on that giant screen using 2K digital projectors, and if most modern filmmakers are still finishing their movies in 2K, what's the point of 4K at home? That's the point I kinda get stuck on.

That said, I'm always one or two "wow" demos away from changing my mind!

 

[Mark Booth]

I already own a 4K TV (75" Vizio) but I'm in no hurry to get a 4K Blu-ray player. It will probably be 2 years before I spend the money for the player, if then.

Mark

 

[DavidJ]

More testing.

True 4k releases, Expendables 3 and Sicario, appear far more highly resolved than the uprezzed titles. There is a difference.

It's completely silly, but I almost bought the 4K version of Sicario despite not having a set/projector or player. I really like the movie, especially Deakins cinematography, and wouldn't mind adding it. Buying it on 4K would give me some incentive to speed up my 4K plans. What crazies some of us HTF nuts are.

 

[Carabimero]

It's completely silly, but I almost bought the 4K version of Sicario despite not having a set/projector or player. I really like the movie, especially Deakins cinematography, and wouldn't mind adding it. Buying it on 4K would give me some incentive to speed up my 4K plans. What crazies some of us HTF nuts are.

That's only slightly crazier than anything I've ever done home theater wise

 

[haineshisway]

I want an LG Oled - that's what I want. I want that. That I want. I kind of liked the curved one in the store. But they are VERY pricey.

 

[OliverK]

Could you steer me towards a credible link or site that comprehensibly lists the current library of 4K titles?

This is the best one I know for film based 4k on BD:

http://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=218262&highlight=4k

There should also be a link in there to 4k(+) movies shot digitally but as it pertains to classic film based titles that is a very good thread and possibly the most comprehensive one out there, L'armée des ombres did a great job.

 

[larryKR]

It's completely silly, but I almost bought the 4K version of Sicario despite not having a set/projector or player..

I bought about 30 to 40 Blu-rays before I had a player. Purchased my first BD player in Jan. 2008 and watched them on an expensive 2005 Panasonic plasma which was 720p. When my current 2012 plasma dies, I will probably buy a 4K OLED and then UHD movies if they are still around. Incidentally that old 2005 plasma still looks very good, I gave it to my parents.

 

[Michel_Hafner]

I believe I was referring to JVC's pixel shift tech, which they call 4k. Better than HD, at a small portion of the 4K projector price. They're fine units. I'm simply not a smoke and mirrors fan.
Something either is, or is not 4k.
.

With that I can agree. They should not call it 4K since it is not. But they should not call it 1080p either since it is not. Calling it 3K would confuse everybody. No good solution here...

 

[Robert Harris]

It's completely silly, but I almost bought the 4K version of Sicario despite not having a set/projector or player. I really like the movie, especially Deakins cinematography, and wouldn't mind adding it. Buying it on 4K would give me some incentive to speed up my 4K plans. What crazies some of us HTF nuts are.

Not silly at all, since the 4k also includes a standard Blu. All of the 4k releases are two discs.

 

[OliverK]

With that I can agree. They should not call it 4K since it is not. But they should not call it 1080p either since it is not. Calling it 3K would confuse everybody. No good solution here...

Calling it a 1080p panel with 4k eShift would probably be a bit too long

 

[Matt Hough]

I want an LG Oled - that's what I want. I want that. That I want. I kind of liked the curved one in the store. But they are VERY pricey.

Exactly. I can't justify paying that (yet), but the fever may get the better of me before too much longer. NO curved screen, though, for me.

 

[Robert George]

On the hardware side, I upgraded to the Samsung UN85JU7100 85" flat (as in "not curved") UHD display a few months ago. The set was calibrated by Gregg Lowen a few weeks ago. As I noted in my "first impressions" post then, the quality of this display is head and shoulders above even the best 1080p LCD panels I have seen. The improvement in image quality viewing a well mastered Blu-ray using the Samsung video scaler is not small and, IMO, worth the upgrade to a UHD display by itself. And therein lies the rub.

I was fortunate enough to grab the first and only UBD-K8500 player off the truck at a local electronic emporium, and of course, had to stop by Best Buy to over-spend on a handful of discs. Kingsman, Hancock, Spiderman 2, Last Witch Hunter and X-Men Days of Future Past are now available to me for evaluation. Will likely add Salt today.

Just a couple of comments on the player. As Samsung disc players go, easily the best I have used. Compared to the average BD player today, it has good build quality and feels considerably more "finished" than just about any other first gen electronics device I've run across (and that has been a lot). There was a software update as soon as I powered up the player so I can't speak to any possible issues with initial OS, but I have not run into anything I would call a problem so far. Once I located the IR sensor (not where the manual shows it to be), using the player with my workhorse MX-980 is a breeze. The player is responsive and smooth in operation. Although I still consider the player to be over-priced at $399 in the context of current player design, I have the experience of spending $599 not so many years ago on the total POS that was the first Toshiba DVD player. I have not had a chance to evaluate performance on standard Blu-ray, but I've only have a few hours logged with it so far.

Now the problem 4K discs have at the outset of the new format.

Blu-ray, or more generically, 2K content is already so good even on large consumer level displays the the improvements inherent in 4K are just not that overwhelming. This is not to say there is not improvement over Blu-ray. There is, and in more than just resolution. But it is not the leap we saw with DVD over laserdisc, or Blu-ray over DVD. This feels more like an evolutional change, not a revolutional one.

Having sampled the available discs, it seems the problem is that elusive "point of diminishing returns" may have finally been overtaken. With so much content being mastered for theatrical use in 2K because of digital projection technology in use today, that "wow!" leap is missing in all too many cases, at least so far. To be sure, the images on the first 4K discs are crisper, cleaner, more detailed and exhibit fantastic colors and incredible black levels over the Blu-ray counterparts, but I'm using a 85" direct view display and I can't say the more common 55" to 65" display is going to be that spectacular.

All that said, I will buy any new titles that I would have bought on Blu-ray going forward in UHD when available. I have no qualms about replacing library titles with UHD reissues, at least for titles I find have greater repeatability. Hey, it's my job as an irresponsible consumer.

 

[Tony Bensley]

It's completely silly, but I almost bought the 4K version of Sicario despite not having a set/projector or player. I really like the movie, especially Deakins cinematography, and wouldn't mind adding it. Buying it on 4K would give me some incentive to speed up my 4K plans. What crazies some of us HTF nuts are.

Not silly at all, since the 4k also includes a standard Blu. All of the 4k releases are two discs.

Unlike my scenario back in 2000 when I purchased a Public Domain DVD of Shirley Temple's THE LITTLE PRINCESS (1939) before we even had a DVD Player! I don't recall any Brick & Mortars ever carrying Laserdisc/DVD or VHS/DVD combo packs!

CHEERS!

 

[Josh Steinberg]

It's completely silly, but I almost bought the 4K version of Sicario despite not having a set/projector or player. I really like the movie, especially Deakins cinematography, and wouldn't mind adding it. Buying it on 4K would give me some incentive to speed up my 4K plans. What crazies some of us HTF nuts are.

If the price of the UHD is similar to the BD, why not? It includes the BD version too and if you ever upgrade to a 4K set, you'll be ready. That's what I did when BD3D titles started coming out - I still had a 2D only TV at first but bought the versions that included the 3D disc, so when I did eventually upgrade to 3D, I was ready to go.

I may take the same path here eventually.

 

[Douglas_H]

Personally, I wouldn't buy an OLED yet.
1. Very expensive
2. The LG panels don't have consistent curve when you get to the lower black levels. Although this might be addressed in a future firmware upgrade.

FWIW, I was at that comparo of the Sony 665 and the JVC 500 & 600s referred to earlier.
No one there preferred the Sony on 4k material. Not that the Sony was bad in that single regard. When you take the large price differential into consideration I know which one I would buy.

 

[Robert Harris]

Sampling more 4k discs, and coming up with additional problems.

For example, if one is running a 2160 signal into a device that has not previously seen that signal, it may fall back to a default setting, and not use any stored set ups. For many TVs, High color must be off, as well as many settings, or you will get banding. Even with setting off, some banding still persists.

Most interesting, and something that many of us presumed with the general situation revolving around 4k, is that the industry isn't ready for it. It should have come out ready for Christmas, this coming fall.

The Samsung player will not play various Blu-rays. I spoke with several of their techs, and was told that it is not guaranteed to play any Blu-ray produced before the player was released. That leaves out at least a dozen or so produced before March 1.

Apparently Samsung has rushed the player to market, without proper testing, and while one can be relatively certain that it will play new 4k media, everything else is off the table.

This will undoubtedly be an interesting ride over the next few months, as bugs are ironed out.

I was asked by techs to go through normal checks. Unplug the player, and wait. Are you certain the player was made of the US market? Are you certain that you're attempting to play US region discs. Try the discs in other players. Firmware was checked four different times by four different techs, none of whom know anything about the player.

My recommendation is that unless one is purchasing solely to run 4k discs, and you just can't wait, DO NOT PURCHASE THE SAMSUNG PLAYER. The Panasonic will follow shortly, and may be a better bet.

If you're running only 4k, and like to have fun fixing problems, go for it.

Addendum: One interesting point that was given me by one of the techs.

The Samsung 4k player is only made to be run specifically via special 4k Monster cable.

These cables, if I'm correct, are spun from the wool of virgin unicorns, by nuns in the Black Forest.

RAH