A Few Words About A few words about...™ 4k UHD - First Impressions (1 Viewer)

[Craig Beam]

Bah. I continue to be amazed at how good 1080p can look, so why would I drop large sums of money to be frustrated, in the fervent hopes of achieving detail that my gradually-declining 46 year-old eyes may not even see? VHS to DVD was amazing. DVD to Blu-ray wasn't quite as impressive, but still markedly better. I guess I'm making the executive decision to stop right here: Blu-ray is my final format. Eventually they'll stop making them, and then I'll be streaming... hopefully it'll approximate Blu-ray quality by then. But hell, I might be blind by then anyway.

 

[haineshisway]

I've been convinced to get the flat panel rather than curved and I'm jiggy with that.

 

[Douglas_H]

What I would like to see is a list of films that have been transferred, mastered or whatever the correct terminology is, in 4k or above. A generic list of UHD releases is somewhat meaningless to me.
Another thing is the 4k spec. It seems a lot like the 1080, 720 BS.
Projectors have true 4k panels but flat panels are allow to say 4k when in actuality the pixels don't add up.
While my knowledge and experience is literally nothing compared to Robert's and others on this forum, it seems that as far as current projection technology, the wide color gamut, BT.2020, capability offers more promise for an improved image than does HDR.
Will projection displays ever be able to truly deliver on the HDR spec? It seems to favor flat panel like OLED that have the capability to produce true black and the 1,000 nit spec for the HDR, UHD "spec".
Just trying to pose honest questions in order to learn.

 

[OliverK]

DVD to Blu-ray wasn't quite as impressive, but still markedly better.

If that was your impression of Blu-ray already then you definitely should stick with it as your premium format for now.
If you also watch new releases then HDR gives things a different look and something that resolution cannot do, You may want to check it out again in maybe a year from now.

 

[Michel_Hafner]

Well, over at AVS forum member W.Mayer claims UHD titles are strongly noise filtered (or the Samsung player applies undefeatable noise processing) and therefore the detail is simply not what it should be:
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/150-b...ur-first-impressions-here-6.html#post42119969
Comments?

 

[Alan Tully]

Well the best of luck to the early adopters, it looks like they have their work cut out with this lot.

 

[OliverK]

Well, over at AVS forum member W.Mayer claims UHD titles are strongly noise filtered (or the Samsung player applies undefeatable noise processing) and therefore the detail is simply not what it should be:
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/150-b...ur-first-impressions-here-6.html#post42119969
Comments?

I can confirm I have seen this for Kingsman. I am not sure how much more detail we would see without the noise reduction but imo it should be rejected on principle - it is ridiculous to apply any kind of filter to an ultra high rez release. The noise on the Blu-ray was completely unobtrusive already and UHD would not have made it worse. Possibly some kind of encoder setting as he sent me caps of Sicario loooking worse than Kingsman while on the other hand Sony titles do not seem to have the issue.

I am even more bothered with HDR colors being completely off, especially visible with skin tones - everybodys face is pink/magenta to some degree, at least for Kingsman.

 

[Matt Hough]

As I recall, Samsung's first Blu-ray player also had this quirk and was the reason I went with the PS3 as my first Blu-ray player. Supposedly, a firmware update solved the problem, but it was many months in the making.

 

[Robert Harris]

I can confirm I have seen this for Kingsman. I am not sure how much more detail we would see without the noise reduction but imo it should be rejected on principle - it is ridiculous to apply any kind of filter to an ultra high rez release. The noise on the Blu-ray was completely unobtrusive already and UHD would not have made it worse. Possibly some kind of encoder setting as he sent me caps of Sicario loooking worse than Kingsman while on the other hand Sony titles do not seem to have the issue.

I am even more bothered with HDR colors being completely off, especially visible with skin tones - everybodys face is pink/magenta to some degree, at least for Kingsman.

Sicario was shot to look totally different than Kingsman, and having seen both, feel that Sicario has more resolution.

There are so many ways that what we're seeing -- from uprezzing of 2k data on the majority of releases, to mastering, compression and authoring, then as affected by the Samsung device and translated back to an image by a panel orbprojection -- that at this moment I haven't a clue what's driving and affecting what.

The only thing that I do know, for certain, is that my processor, a Krell Foundation, which will shortly be replaced for lack of Atmos, is not a culprit, as its out of the chain.

 

[George_W_K]

I have a 55" OLED that I bought a couple of weeks ago. I sit 5' away from it so the extra pixel density of the TV is great just for sitting so close. 1080p content looks really good to me, and before this set, I had zero interest in 3D. Now I've been buying up 3D titles like crazy because they look amazing, especially Gravity with the black levels with the OLED panel.

As for 4k UHD, I had planned on early adopting, I bought The Martian as soon as it was in the store. I have yet to see a player in the store, which has turned out to be a Godsend apparently with the problems people are experiencing and the lack of a standard calibration as Dave mentioned earlier.

I do want 4k content sooner than later, but it will be mostly new releases and some major titles that I'll watch over and over again. So far 1080p bluray looks great as it is so waiting just a tad longer won't be difficult. Streaming 4k is probably something I won't be able to do for some time because I can't get fast enough internet in my area, at least affordably, and the content won't look as good as physical media for a long time I'm sure.

So while I want to jump in, I'm going to wait for at least the Panasonic payer to be released unless the Samsung player gets a firmware upgrade that fixes a lot of the complaints I'm hearing. Meanwhile, I'll buy new UHD discs of titles I'm interested in and watch the BD for now.

 

[Robert Harris]

I have a 55" OLED that I bought a couple of weeks ago. I sit 5' away from it so the extra pixel density of the TV is great just for sitting so close. 1080p content looks really good to me, and before this set, I had zero interest in 3D. Now I've been buying up 3D titles like crazy because they look amazing, especially Gravity with the black levels with the OLED panel.

As for 4k UHD, I had planned on early adopting, I bought The Martian as soon as it was in the store. I have yet to see a player in the store, which has turned out to be a Godsend apparently with the problems people are experiencing and the lack of a standard calibration as Dave mentioned earlier.

I do want 4k content sooner than later, but it will be mostly new releases and some major titles that I'll watch over and over again. So far 1080p bluray looks great as it is so waiting just a tad longer won't be difficult. Streaming 4k is probably something I won't be able to do for some time because I can't get fast enough internet in my area, at least affordably, and the content won't look as good as physical media for a long time I'm sure.

So while I want to jump in, I'm going to wait for at least the Panasonic payer to be released unless the Samsung player gets a firmware upgrade that fixes a lot of the complaints I'm hearing. Meanwhile, I'll buy new UHD discs of titles I'm interested in and watch the BD for now.

One must presume that Samsung will update their firmware to solve problems, but the overall size and weight of their unit is also off-putting, as one must fine the tiny open/close button to close the tray. Push gently on the tray, and the unit it pushed back.

The other problem Samsung is facing is their apparent total lack of trained tech support people. I spoke with five or six and only one was even aware of the player. Everyone had to look things up. Just not a good way to begin and interrelate with the public.

The Panasonic unit seems to be a ways off, and probably properly synchronized with what should have been the 4k launch in fall of 2016.

In the interim, enjoy your OLED. They're great sets.

RAH

 

[George_W_K]

One must presume that Samsung will update their firmware to solve problems, but the overall size and weight of their unit is also off-putting, as one must fine the tiny open/close button to close the tray. Push gently on the tray, and the unit it pushed back.

The other problem Samsung is facing is their apparent total lack of trained tech support people. I spoke with five or six and only one was even aware of the player. Everyone had to look things up. Just not a good way to begin and interrelate with the public.

The Panasonic unit seems to be a ways off, and probably properly synchronized with what should have been the 4k launch in fall of 2016.

In the interim, enjoy your OLED. They're great sets.

RAH

Yeah, I don't understand how Samsung hasn't done a lot of testing of the material and also not have a lot of communication with their own employees. I'd think a somewhat smooth launch would highly benefit them and their bottom line.

 

[OliverK]

Sicario was shot to look totally different than Kingsman, and having seen both, feel that Sicario has more resolution.

There are so many ways that what we're seeing -- from uprezzing of 2k data on the majority of releases, to mastering, compression and authoring, then as affected by the Samsung device and translated back to an image by a panel orbprojection -- that at this moment I haven't a clue what's driving and affecting what.

The only thing that I do know, for certain, is that my processor, a Krell Foundation, which will shortly be replaced for lack of Atmos, is not a culprit, as its out of the chain.

I completely agree, far too many variables. I have no idea how the picture I am seeing is supposed to look so I am erring on the conservative side of not watching any more of this new stuff until we are making progress with proper calibratio and setup. It doesn't help of course that we have HDR10 and Dolby Vision on top of it which poses certain problems and of course HDR is meant for a brightness that will rarely be achieved with front screen projection even in the lower HDR mode that calls for "only" 540 nits.

Good luck finding a suitable Atmos processor, that Krell is not easily replaced. I always liked that it had room for the largest of systems with its 10 HDMI inputs - one of a kind.

 

[Robert Harris]

I completely agree, far too many variables. I have no idea how the picture I am seeing is supposed to look so I am erring on the conservative side of not watching any more of this new stuff until we are making progress with proper calibratio and setup. It doesn't help of course that we have HDR10 and Dolby Vision on top of it which poses certain problems and of course HDR is meant for a brightness that will rarely be achieved with front screen projection even in the lower HDR mode that calls for "only" 540 nits.

Good luck finding a suitable Atmos processor, that Krell is not easily replaced. I always liked that it had room for the largest of systems with its 10 HDMI inputs - one of a kind.

The Krell will find a good home, but it must be to someone with no interest on Atmos. If any members are interested the price will be better than 50 off.

Will it's replacement be able to match its sonic values? Possibly not, but I need to report on Atmos, without continually replugging.

 

[OliverK]

The Krell will find a good home, but it must be to someone with no interest on Atmos. If any members are interested the price will be better than 50 off.

Will it's replacement be able to match its sonic values? Possibly not, but I need to report on Atmos, without continually replugging.

Sounds like a deal to me, I am sure it will find a good home. Maybe the new Anthem preamp will be a nice and more unique replacement.

 

[PMF]

What I would like to see is a list of films that have been transferred, mastered or whatever the correct terminology is, in 4k or above. A generic list of UHD releases is somewhat meaningless to me.
Another thing is the 4k spec. It seems a lot like the 1080, 720 BS.

Things can get confusing, at times. Case in point, the 45th and 50th Anniversary BD's of "The Sound of Music" cites on the back cover specs that the film is presented in 1080; but different internet sources/conversations indicate that the transfer came from a 4K scan. If this is the case, then why would a 4K baner not be boasted on the 50th Anniversary edition? It's sometimes hard to know which is which; especially when expanding the conversation to the larger items such a panels and projectors. I'm glad this thread got established by RAH; as I finally know why everything out there at the stores seemed so muddled to me, when doing research with salespeople.