Willy Wonka Widescreen Scam? (2 Viewers)

[Torgny Nilsson]

I was about to buy the widescreen Willy Wonka for my kids when I discovered a discussion on Amazon.com that indicates that the dvd "widescreen" version cuts the top and bottom off the laserdisk widescreen version and actually shows less of the top and bottom than the pan and scan version. Does anyone know if this is another Back to the Future widescreen scam?

 

[Michael Reuben]

Moving this to Software.

M.

 

[Adam_WM]

I don't trust people's opinions who post on Amazon. Any HTF'ers care to comment on this?

 

[DeepakJR]

Willy Wonka was made in open matte. Therefore widescreen is still the OAR, the fullscreen transfer is MAR. Several shots will not appear right if you watch in in fullscreen. The one i can recall off the top of my head is a microphone being shown in the Veruca Salt sequence. By all means, buy the widescreen version, it shows the efforts of HT internet community.

 

[Patrick McCart]

The standard 1.33:1 version of the DVD is unmatted, which means you get more image on the top and bottom. This is how a print of the film would look.

The "special widescreen edition" 1.78:1 version of the DVD is matted from 1.37:1 to 1.78:1 with anamorphic encoding. This is close to how you'd see it in the theater. In a theatrical projector, the 1.37:1 print would be masked anywhere from 1.66:1 to 1.85:1. 1.75:1-1.85:1 are the best ratios for this film, so the widescreen DVD properly shows this.

You don't get more overall image, but rather get the correct one. This is how most 1.66:1-1.85:1 films are.

If I may add...the transfer, besides the correct matted ratio, is superb. There is big lack of digital artifacts, overall excellent color, and a really transparent image (as in a lack of film artifacts).

 

[ScottR]

Willy Wonka is NOT correct....I saw the re-release in theatres and the previous dvd release accurately reflects that....if you have both to compare, you should...the new dvd crops significant picture info on both sides of the screen...I don't buy this "open matte" theory as the new dvd is not a reflection of the 1.85:1 ratio in theatres.

 

[Patrick McCart]

Willy Wonka is NOT correct....I saw the re-release in theatres and the previous dvd release accurately reflects that....if you have both to compare, you should...the new dvd crops significant picture info on both sides of the screen...I don't buy this "open matte" theory as the new dvd is not a reflection of the 1.85:1 ratio in theatres.

The re-release probably had prints with the mattes already on them (most modern prints are like that now). Also, you have to take into effect the framing used in the theater (all 4 sides are matted to an extent) and the framing for the DVD, without overscan.

 

[ScottR]

All that I am saying is that the old dvd matches what I saw in the theatre, and the new one doesn't...it is missing picture info that is on the previous release.

 

[Adam_WM]

it is missing picture info that is on the previous release.

Previous release meaning full frame?

 

[Randy A Salas]

The one i can recall off the top of my head is a microphone being shown in the Veruca Salt sequence.

The other infamously wrong sequence on the full-screen version is the scene where Violet meets her fate. You can see the hoses on the floor running into her costume to create the effect of her comeuppance.

 

[ScottR]

No, it is missing info from the left and right sides of the frame on the widescreen side of the original dvd released in the late '90's.

 

[Adam_WM]

No, it is missing info from the left and right sides of the frame on the widescreen side of the original dvd released in the late '90's.

Any care to do some screen grabs?

 

[Eric Emma]

So which should I get since I dearly love Willy Wonka, great movie...(Ironically coming from someone who loves horror movies)

 

[Jeffrey Gray]

Get the 2001 one. An extra 5% of the frame isn't worth buying an old, 1997-quality transfer...

 

[Ken Seeber]

From Webster's:
Scam: n. A swindle or fraud; esp. a CONFIDENCE GAME.

The misframing of "Back to the Future" wasn't an intentional scam, it was a mistake. Big difference.

 

[David Lambert]

At the time Wonka - Widescreen came out (thanks to the hard efforts of many here at this forum), this entire issue was discussed and laid to rest as being somewhat legit, in that you could prove that a VERY minor amount of info was missing...but on the screen grabs comparisons it was a couple of millimeters of info. Negligable, and persons of the projectionist profession pointed out that two different theaters could have each shown it both ways, depending on the setups.

I don't recall all the grisly details, but anyone can feel free to do an HTF search and find the thread I'm thinking of. We discussed it to death over a year ago. I'm gonna bow out of covering that ground again...I only popped in here to say this, because I'm shocked noone else has.

I'll close by suggesting that people should pick their words more carefully. Words like "scam" may be attention grabbing, but also can be insulting as well. And people just lurking through the forum without reading all the details can get the wrong idea from such a header. Maybe a mod can think of a better subject for this thread, like "Widescreen Wonka Framing Question". BTTF wasn't a scam, as was pointed out, and I'm convinced Wonka isn't either.

 

[Qui-Gon John]

David, agreed these problems are not scams. However, they are indicative of serious Quality Control issues in DVD production. That alone should be unacceptable to members here. The goal should always be 100% perfection, lest we lower our standards to accomodate the short-comings of the feeble-minded, something happening in far too many areas of our society these days.

 

[David Lambert]

I'll repeat that the Wonka issue was NOT a quality control issue but an issue of aperture setup...at least if I can believe the posts I read back at the time. Since those setups are subjective as to their fine-tuning, I can live with it.

Perfection is not possible. Or rather, "Nothing's Perfect" as my wife likes to say. Or, as Data said to the Borg Queen in First Contact, "Believing oneself to be perfect is often the sign of a delusional mind."

 

[Qui-Gon John]

Even if perfection is not possible, striving for perfection should always be the goal. Even more so because if you know that you'll inevitably fall short of your mark, don't you think you should aim for absolute 100% perfection. Then if you fall a little short, maybe it's so damn close nobody can tell the difference.

 

[Dwayne]

Go ahead and choose a MAR presentation with FX hoses and boom mikes visible if you wish. But I'll stay quite content with my widescreen version, which I bought sight unseen because:

1. The film is considered a classic which, after viewing it for myself, I happily agree. And...

2. I made a personal commitment to purchase a widescreen copy if Warner obliged our pleas to release it.