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whole house audio? (1 Viewer)

JoseLH

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Jan 15, 2006
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Hi everyone.
My home SHOULD be complete by Nov 15 and I have afew questions about my prewired system. I have my theater/family room downstairs. The av gear will be in a closet and the rear speakers are in ceilings that I bought from www.htd.com The fronts will be floor standing and a center. The rest of the house has 6 total in ceilings, also from HTD.com with outlets for volume controls. Everything terminates in that downstairs closet.
I do have two seperate receivers, one for my Theater and another older JVC digital receiver. It was leftover from my old theater so I figured I'd reuse it.
Here's my concern...
Aside from the master bedroom, which has two speakers, the others will be single units. There's one in the dining room, one in the upstairs hallway, one in the master bath, one in backyard patio, and the two from the bedroom I mentioned. How can I get my 5.1 receiver to output MONO sound to all speakers? I want the same music from all of them but I fear that they will be playing in stereo when there is only one per area!
Won't the sound split between the speakers connected to right and left channel? I plan to use volume controls and a speaker selector again from HTD.com. I just can't figure how to get the same sound from each of them? I will primarily use the receiver for my iPod and fm stations once in a while.
Thanks!
 

homthtr

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The rooms that were prewired for single speakers should have been prewired with 4 conductor wire and you should install Dual Voice coil speakers. This gives you both the left and right channels all through one speaker. If you wired wrong...... You'll have to figure out a way to do everything in Mono.

Did you wire Correctly? 4 conductor from equipment to Volume control and 4 Conductor to the single speakers?

Are the "Single" Speakers you ordered "Dual" voice coil?

What is the Model of your JVC Receiver?
 

Cees Alons

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I would never in my life send different signals to each of the voice-coils of a dual voice-coil speaker. Never!


Cees
 

Wayne A. Pflughaupt

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First you’ll need a mono source, so you’ll have to convert your stereo music components to mono. That will require either a passive combining network like this, or something active like this Behringer mini-mixer (using channels 1 and 2).

That’ll get you mono to at least the two front channels of your JVC. The rest might be a problem. Does it have a 5-channel stereo mode? If not, you’re out of luck. All you’ll be able to get from the center and rear channels is a processed sound – i.e., “Stadium” or what have you. If that’s the case, you’ll have to use a speaker selector, or additional amplification.

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt
 

homthtr

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Steve

That's exactly what Dual Tweeter (dual voice coil)(Stereo Speaker)(depending on what the manufactur wants to call them) speakers are made for!!!....

Maybe all the manufactures are wrong.. .but I've been installing these for Many many years.

Take your pick...everyone makes them...
They are Great for small bathrooms, Front entry ways outside, anywhere space is limited.
You can get them for inwall or inceiling.
Not that we use them all over the house( you could), but it's a great solution were space is limited.

http://speakercraft.com/#Products:76:8.1%20DT

http://www.rs100.co.uk/product_info....c757254b7b6237

http://www.smarthome.com/82338.html

http://www.crutchfield.com/S-2NjoFAH...500&I=653I6CST

http://www.crutchfield.com/S-2NjoFAH...0&I=108CS60RDT


I could go on and on... Speakercraft, Russound, polk, infinity, I kown I"m missing a few hundred.........

We still need to find out how the house is wired before making any more recomendations...
 

JoseLH

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well, I saw that the moron installer ran 4 wire to certain speakers but it's hard to see exactly where since the builder ahs everything covered up with wall plates until we close. This installer is contracted through my builder so we kind of had to go with him. as for the receiver, it's an old JVC Rx8000v. If I can't get mono sound to each one, do you think they would sound weird playing stereo music? They are single coil.
I might just cover up the boxes for the volume controls and use a selector box downstairs to correct the impedence issue of running six speakers to the left and right channels. Will this work?
 

Cees Alons

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I see.

That's quite a different concept from what we used to call "dual voice coil", which were two voice coils on one cone, meant to enable the designer to influence the TS-parameters (as well as the load: generally each voice-coil is 4 Ohms, so you could wire them in parallel - 2 Ohms - or in series - 8 Ohms - or even only one - 4 Ohms - and optionally close the other one with a potentiometer).

Whatever. And sorry for the confusion.

I suppose these speakers have two "cones". However, if the voice coils are mechanically coupled, I still wouldn't feel comfortable sending different signals to each of them! There are better and safer solutions then, IMO.


Cees
 

homthtr

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It's my belief that the crossover in the speaker changes the low's and mid's to mono and keeps the stereo serpeation for the dual Tweeters that are in each of the speakers...

Thanks for clearing up your confusion:)

Back to the Homeowner...

Check with the installer if he didn't run 4 conductor to each single speaker location have him change it before you close on the house. If it's wrong have him correct it. Expecially if he was the "expert" for the audio. Have it fixed now before you close!!!!

Take the plates off and see what you have. You should have two 4 conductor wires at each volume control. Or one 4 conductor and two 2 conductors or even four 2 conductors.

If it's not thier do not accept the installation as it's not correct.

You have a new house you don't want it wrong right off the bat!.. Don't settle for mono or one side of stereo either... that's NOT Acceptable!!

In the rooms where you have the single speaker you should have a stereo speaker installed as I have listed in the above posts. DO NOT install single speakers in those rooms. You'll be listening to one side of the stereo and that would just be WRONG!!!


I've charged customers $1000's and $1000's to fix improperly wired systems. sometimes 10's of 1000's. All because of either having an electrician or inexperienced installer doing the work. I've been in the business of structured wiring in New construction working directly with builders for over 20 years. Have it done correct!....
 

homthtr

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Yes that would convert your source to mono for all areas. Even the room(s) with two speakers would be mono.

I wouldn't settle for that, but if that's the way you want to go it will "work".:thumbsdown:

But Remember you will need one of these for each source and you'll need a Seperate standalone FM/AM tuner if you want Radio, you wouldn't be able to use the one built into your receiver as there's no way to output the preamp of the tuner to that part and back into the amp. Unless you are going to have your Home theater Amp connected to your Whole house amp (and your home theater amp would have to be a 2 Zone Amp with Mulit source preamp outs. You would have to have both amps on any time you want the Whole house running. You're starting to get into a wiring and operating nightmare.

If the Whole house amp will be totally seperate from the Home theater then.....you'll need even more parts...

So see how many sources you are going to be using for your whole house listening, Radio, CD, Cable Music, Ipod Dock (and it will have to be one with stereo outputs), any other music source and you'll need one of those converters for each source before it enters your older JVC receiver. So at almost $100 each you'll be spending $400-$500 on the conveters, then you'll need 2 Audio rca patch cables for each source ( another additional cost) and let's not forget if you want your Radio you'll need a standalone Tuner and another converter and you'll still be moving backwards instead of having the correct wires installed.

You could Upgrade to the best Single Point Stereo speaker on the market for all your rooms for the price that you will end up with to convert to mono.

I'm hoping that when you check the volume control locations (take the blank plate off and look) you'll find the correct wires.
 

homthtr

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Like I was saying he's going to get into a wiring and operational nightmare trying to rig this system that the installer should have wired correctly to begin with...Let's hope he finds more wires then he expects to find. :)
 

JoseLH

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Ok guys. First Thanks a ton for your help! Now, the wires ARE correct! The areas with multiple speakers share one volume control. My bedroom has a 4 wire conductor coming in and two 2 wires. The only volume control box that has two 2 wires is the one in the bath (single speaker) and the hall way(Single speaker). So, I'm good there. Now, all I have to do is buy two dual voice speakers, one for the bath and hallway. The rest can be single voice since there are two. Sound right? By the way.... my house is almost done and the installer finally called today. I'll have a chit chat with him tomorrow. I need everything labeled and a diagram. Thanks again!
 

homthtr

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Still wrong. If your volume control only has a 2 conductor coming in and a 2 conductor going out your back to your old delema, it's wired wrong. The bathroom and hallway are wrong. There should be a 4 conductor in and another 4 condutor (REQUIRED) out to run a Single point stereo speaker. The Single point stereo speaker has 4 inputs left pos and neg AND right pos and neg. With the two wires in and the two wires out you are back to your mono delema and its WRONG WRONG WRONG!!!

If there is a way you can get whoever wired this to change it have them do it NOW..... Add that to your Punch list for the builder!

Either that or leave the bathroom door open stand in the door and you'll have stereo between the bathroom speaker and your hallway speaker.:frowning: NOT
 

JoseLH

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Here's what I'm doing. I'm using the mono convertor from www.partsexpress.com for use with my iPod and as for FM stations, I just need to hit that mono button up front to hear the same signal on all speakers. I actually DON'T want stereo sound around the house because only the bedroom has twin speakers and I doubt I'll be entertaining much in there, except my wife of course! :) I have a single speaker on the patio as well so it's good. One other question...
can I use any standard in wall/ceiling speaker for the rear patio? It's an overhang and the speaker is tucked into it away from edges where it could get wet. Is there such a thing as a water proof in wall?
 

homthtr

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That's funny... you ask for a inwall weather resisant speaker. And it's going to take us right back to the Speakercraft 6.1DT (Stereo Speaker). which is 100% weather resistant and carriers a full lifetime warrenty, But your not wired right so I don't think this is the proper speaker. I never tried hooking up just 1/2 the speaker.. I guess you could. Should "work". It's made for even installing over the shower!.. so it's a pretty tough speaker. I've used Speakercraft speakers for years and have never had a failure. As long as you stick with their lifetime warrenty speakers.
 

mylan

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Steve, he means he doesn't like the responses you've given him because they run contrary to what he has already done as far as wiring and wants to get out as cheaply as possible and thinks he knows way more about the subject than you, I.M.O. I wish you were around when I was designing my system.
Dude, the ONLY place you can really get away with one speaker is possibly the bathroom, using a "dual voicecoil" speaker due to the bath being a smaller space. Everywhere else, you'll need two speakers or you'll greatly compromise sound quality, but hey, don't listen to us, what do we know, we've just been there, done that.
 

homthtr

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The house is obviously wired completely wrong and the customer who should have it corrected is just trying to make it work instead of insisting that it's done correct.

It's to the point now that it's getting time to close on the house and once it's closed that's how it's going to be.

Too bad. As I do feel bad for anyone who is charged for inferrior work.
 

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