When Are We Going to Petition for HD-DVD Format? We NEED HD-DVD to join OAR FIGHT! (2 Viewers)

[Rachael B]

Chris, I absolutely agree with your sentiments. DVD is NTSC and we should be abandoning NTSC soon. DVD is poised to be the new "VHS" in the HDTV era. The previously mentioned Muse LDs were only released in Japan. I own 9 of them and the better looking ones blow past DVD in pic quality. I'm collecting them to exercise my HDTV monitor and because I suspect that HD-DVD is far off.
Oh, Muse LDs are not NTSC. They are a subformat of Japanese Hi-Vision analog 1035i hi-def 16 x 9 broadcast format. The LDs have a lower resolution, I'm unclear about the exact resolution. It's consideably higher than DVD though.
The U.S. and Europe could of had Hi-Vision many years ago. In fact Hi-Vision was the original hi-def format for the U.S., but broadcasters and the MPAA stoped it. Now they want to stop 1080i too, me thinks. I suspect they will push for a lower HDTV standard soon. Cable intrests certainly will.
The MPAA has always wanted to sell us the lowest format we'd accept. In the light of HDTV, DVD is a low format. With the weak will of the FCC who knows what will happen? The mud is deep! Chris, you can count me as one who wants a real HDTV format too, but I'm not holding my breath. Best wishes!
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Rachael, the big disc cat! "...Mandrake, have you ever seen a commie drink water..."
AFI Film Challenge, hey I've only got 1 to go!

 

[DaveF]

ChrisA -- Is it fair to summarize your posts as, "I want tomorrow's technology, today?"
That goes for all of us, I think (I'd love to have the Intel Pentium 7 50GHz processor and supporting hardware, now.) But wanting and having are quite different things.
And others have said, even if technologically feasibly, it is impossible from a marketing standpoint. As much as I like new hardware, I also like stability so I can feel confident in my purchases, knowing it won't be obsolete tomorrow. And consumers are generally conservative, wanting to buy the "winning" technology -- for contrast, look at the confusion regarding HDTV sets, SACD v. DVD-A, and DVD-R v. DVD-RAM v. DVD-RW.
Yes, it would be great to have HD-DVD now, but we're really just getting going with normal DVD. And given all the rants about DTS this, superbit that, and the subsequent need for multiple discs, I doubt there is a technology with the capacity for HD-DVD, that is also cheap and readily produced en masse.

 

[Tom J. Davis]

Me wishes I lived closer to Nashville so I could check out some of these MUSE laserdiscs that I read about every now and then. Sounds awsome!
Tom

 

[ChrisA]

DVD is NTSC and we should be abandoning NTSC soon. DVD is poised to be the new "VHS" in the HDTV era.

Exactly. The other fear is as you mention... even though they could have HD-DVD ready to go within 2 years, how long will they milk it. At least processor maunfacturers have competition to release new and better processors. Let's just hope that competition is sufficient from on demand HDTV and other HD delivery methods. Something will fill the gap, perhaps even some specialty HD-DVD company like MUSE, but for DVD.
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[Michael St. Clair]

16:9 480p, obtainable from DVD, is not NTSC.
That said, I eagerly await the destruction of the DVD format as we know it today. HD is the jump we should have had from laserdisc in the very beginning. HD-DVD now, baby!

 

[David Tallen]

Whatever your views may be on HD DVD, I think it would be a huge mistake for any DVD collector to stop buying the best available copy of his or her movie favorites just because HD on demand becomes available. If we've learned anything over the last 50 years, it is that when anyone but you controls the signal going through your processor to your video screen, that signal is going to be edited. Aspect ratios will change, languages will change, subtitles will change, scenes will be edited (or eliminated; or added), commercials will be inserted, etc. etc.
My advice is, "Grab it while you can."

 

[Kwang Suh]

ChrisA will be waiting forever. There's always something new around the corner. If HD-DVD ever comes out, there will be an even better format being hinted at. The cycle never stops.

 

[Reginald Trent]

I agree with Kwang. Aren't computers suppose to be in every home? Aren't we suppose to have cars that drive themselves? There are many examples of promises for the future, just remember the phrase "Promises, promises."
BTW What year would you guess HDTV will be broadcast 24/7 throughout the USA?
[Edited last by Reginald Trent on October 28, 2001 at 10:55 AM]

 

[ChrisA]

If HD-DVD ever comes out, there will be an even better format being hinted at. The cycle never stops

.
I'll be waiting forever?

How can you say "IF" HD-DVD ever comes out, and "the cycle never stops". If the CYCLE never stops, HD-DVD will be out sooner rather than later, and we WILL be talking about the next increase in performance, which is great. To think life ends at 1080p and the money train stops is also wrong. The money train will never stop and there is no reason not to release significant enhancements every so often. In a sort of 'micro' kind of way, look at people re-buying Suberbit DVDs. We can keep going beyond 1080 as well, and who knows what else may come all the way up until we have 'holodecks'
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[Kwang Suh]

When will "good enough" be "good enough" for you, Chris? Once you've seen 2160p, will 1080p be "enough"?

 

[ChrisA]

Well, It sure isn't NTSC 1080 at least meets the current HDTV standard. We need HD-DVD sooner than later.
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[Rachael B]

I think the content providers had their minds made up about HDTV befoe DVD even appeared. They were bound and determined to limit it. I think the networks took the gift of bandwidth somewhat fraudentually. They aren't doing much with it. Although, they are beginning to make some progress. Meanwhile, the MPAA seems determined to undermine it all.
I think to the MPAA DVD was a way to undermine the HDTV rollout. I've always been somewhat disappointed in DVD. The sound on average is below LD standards. Certain studios tried to keep anamorphic-ism off the menu. Hint: Mouseketeers.... If it wasn't for anamorphics, I'd nearly rather have LD back.
Once you have a HDTV monitor it becomes readily apparent that DVD is inadequate. Most of the things that afflict the LD format also afflict DVD, granted to a lesser extent, wiggling lines, ect...
In it's age, LD was premium home video. I'd argue there is no premium format now. VHS doesn't count in my book. It was obsolete 15 years ago IMO. HDTV needs a suitable format that's not like DIVX. DIVX-like certainly is what "they" desire. I'm sorry I'm so cynical! I can't help it.....
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Rachael, the big disc cat! "...Mandrake, have you ever seen a commie drink water..."
AFI Film Challenge, hey I've only got 1 to go!

 

[Rachael B]

Oh, I forgot Super Bits! SB's is a bone being thrown out to see if our resolution desires can be easily satisfied, me thinks.
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Rachael, the big disc cat! "...Mandrake, have you ever seen a commie drink water..."
AFI Film Challenge, hey I've only got 1 to go!

 

[ChrisA]

Superbit 480 YAH RIGHT! I think I'll take 1080 thanks

Oh yeah, then there is the issue of having to SCALE that Superbit to HDTV using expensive external or cheap internal scalers which then introduce all of their own artifacts. Then you have the issue of interpolating new lines--as if you can magically turn 480 lines into 1080 lines
without loss of quality

We need a DVD format that ouputs the same level of quality as the HDTV standard. They don't call it a standard for nothing. DVD=NTSC and that is all there is too it.
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[RobertR]

quote: the issue of having to SCALE that Superbit to HDTV using expensive external or cheap internal scalers [/quote]
"expensive"? My Radeon card cost a whopping 77 bucks, and outperforms a Faroudja processor costing hundreds of times that much.
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[Edited last by RobertR on October 28, 2001 at 01:55 PM]

 

[ChrisA]

Last I checked you need a PC to run that Radeon Card. Then your talking about the ackwardness and complications that go along with using a PC. No matter how many solutions and improvements are made with scalers, you are still dealing with NTSC. Big difference between native 480 and native 1080. You don't ANY scaling device for HD-DVD and not only do you have a native 1080 picture, you don't have all the crap and artifacts that come with trying to make a 480 NTSC signal more than it is.
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[Edited last by ChrisA on October 28, 2001 at 02:06 PM]

 

[Pieter_L]

I'm with Chris here....
watching HiDef movies on HBO HD make my DVD collection look very "VHS-ish" by comparison.
Joe Kane had an interesting proposition regarding 720P DVDs that can be put out TODAY, and also be backwards compatible with today's players. sure will tide me over until 1080i/p
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[Anders Englund]

Once someone comes up with a medium that has a CD form factor and can store about 2 terabytes of information, we should ses a new format coming down the road.

Considering the rate things are moving (with the possible exception of Back to the future on DVD) that was probably done when you werte done typing your post...
--Anders
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http://www.dvd1138.com/
Ob me Deus cavet
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[Roland Wandinger]

I'll be replainceing my SD-DVD with HD-DVDs in a heartbeat. It's very unfortunate that we still have to put up with PAL/NTSC in 2001 while technology would permit 1080p. For crying out loud NTSC was introduced in 1954 and PAL in 1963!!!
But as said before: It's all about money and politics! I don't have any illusions about seeing HD-DVDs available soon.
If we at least had 21:9 transfers for 2:35 movies.

 

[DaViD Boulet]

Joe Kane had an interesting proposition regarding 720P DVDs that can be put out TODAY, and also be backwards compatible with today's players. sure will tide me over until 1080i/p

Joe Kane has got some irrational love-affair with 720P as though it's the holy-grail of video. He's frozen in time and can't imagine a world where 1080P is a reality.
It's going to happen and it's going to happen affordable. Any fixed-matrix digital projector or display (palma, DILA, LCD, DLP, GLV) that has 1080 vertical elements can give you instant 1080P. 1080P requires $$$ and tight tolerances from CRT-based technology but will be cheap and easy with digital displays. I'll be you in a few years you'll be able to buy a decent 1080P-capable digital display/projector for less than $8000.
We should not go through all the work to introduce a new format only to mar it in 720 resolution. That's just a bit better than PAL! Let's go all the way folks...1080P and even leave the room open for more resolution as technology evolves. Once the industry brings a new format to market it will be very hard to introduce a new format all over again for the more incremental advantage of 1080P over 720P. There's wouldn't be the marketing edge like we'd have with any HD-resolution medium over today's SD-resolution DVD.
Let's do it and do it right from the start.
-dave