When Are We Going to Petition for HD-DVD Format? We NEED HD-DVD to join OAR FIGHT! (1 Viewer)

[ChrisA]

Sure it is misleading. I don't see them clarifying the difference, quite the opposite.
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[Frank]

What would you do if in the future you bought a new HD-DVD version of one of your favorite movies and discovered that it didn't look any better then your old DVD?
Perhaps you would complain only to be told that this was the way the director intended it to look.
Frank

 

[RobertR]

Hey Frank, you touched on something that many people are unaware of or don't talk about--namely, that like any other format, High Definition varies in quality. Over on AV Science, I read a post from a guy comparing Muse Hidef discs to DVD.
The best Muse discs beat DVD. The worst are worse than DVD.
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[ChrisA]

Excerpt from Guide to HomeTheater:
Last week, Nippon Telegraph and Telephone Corporation (NTT) reported that it has successfully developed what it describes as the world's first system for delivering 1.5 Gbps volume uncompressed HDTV video data in real time over the Internet. NTT says it will exhibit the Linux-based system during the International Broadcast Equipment Exhibition (InterBEE 2001) at the Nippon Convention Center from November 14 to 16, 2001.
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[RobertR]

I don't think home theater enthusiasts are going to be happy if the only way to get HD movies is via pay per view. We like to OWN a copy.
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[DaViD Boulet]

I believe everything so far has indicated that HD-DVD will be backwards-compatible with today's DVD players. Of course this means complications - for example if the new HD-DVD format features completely different audio compression (or the lack of compression) a regular Dolby Digital or DTS track would have to be included on the HD-DVD discs as well in order for it to be a 100% backwards-compatible. And either the discs would have to contain two video tracks (480i and 1080p) or downconversion to 480i is necessary.

HD-DVD *players* will most likely be back-wards compatible with SD-DVD software and CDs...just like today's DVD players play CDs too.
But HD-DVD *discs* may or may not be. It totally depends...most likely they would not be but it would be cool if they could be made in such a way that one layer(s) or side is SD-DVD res and the other layer(s)/side is HD.
I want to get free from compression artifacts and have some *real* audio for a change (not talking about no compression, just to compresion *artifacts*). Give me perfect transfers with no trace of digital compression and give me 7 channel 24/192 or DSD auido!!! (lossless compression would be fine for the audio).
-dave

 

[ChrisA]

Give me a reason DSD is superior to PCM (DVD-Audio).
Also, while I sure would be happy with a pre-recorder 1080p, 7 discrete MLP/DSD format, the current DVD format can only do 6 channels of audio taking 100% of the bandwidth. Personally, I would love to see 7 channels of losslessly compressed 24/96 in addition to 1080p, but are you willing to hold out for 15-20 years? I don't think we will have that capability for a while yet, and even if we do, for whatever reason, how long will they milk the current DVD format? And who is to say that releasing 720p/1080i within 2-3 years would slow down the release of the beloved 1080p, multichannel MLP/DSD? I see no reason that releasing 720/1080i HD-DVD within 2-3 years, and continuing to use DTS, but with full rate, and Dolby Digital at full rate (448). It might be nice to have MLP introduced as the HD-DVD accepted format, with DTS and DD listed as alternatives, just as DTS is listed now. With Dolby Digital being in charge of the licensing of MLP, I think we might have a shot of avoiding too much resistance, and Dolby, and the DVD Forum accepting MLP as the HD-DVD standard. IF bandwidth is an issue, we could do 20/48 MLP in 6/7 channel, which would be an improvement (IMO) over DTS or Dolby Digital, although DTS running at full rate is very nice also. I see no reason to ask for DSD to become the new format for HD-DVD. DSD is also less friendly to processing, such as room correction, dither, digital crossovers, and other forms of digital manipulation. Every source I read regarding DSD vs PCM shows that each have their advantage and disadvantages, but DSD still seems to have more disadvantages, technically speaking. I don't care to hear anybodies oipinion on subjective opinion on DSD sounding better than PCM because I don't think anyone can make a true comparison. There is no reason IMO to pick DSD over PCM, especially for HD-DVD. To snub MLP/PCM is foolish (IMO).
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[Edited last by ChrisA on November 05, 2001 at 12:08 PM]

 

[Brian-W]

The best Muse discs beat DVD. The worst are worse than DVD.

That'd be me...
River Runs Through It and Dances with Wolves(4 hour version) look significantly better than the DVD counterparts (which are scaled to 1365x1024 and run through an anamorphic lens).
Top Gun and A League of Their Own were worse than the DVD.
Then again, this weekend we watched some D-VHS tapes of HDTV material and Ronin looked better than the DVD, but negligible (maybe 10/20% in detail). Titanic was significantly better than the DVD (no surprise) while Caddyshack was almost indistinguishable from the DVD version (colors were a little more saturated, but MINIMAL)
Everything varies from transfers to compression, HDTV doesn't always = 100% better
-Brian

 

[Frank]

PBS HDTV which is shot with HDTV cameras looks so good when line doubled to 1080P that I can sit less then one screen height away and the picture is still wonderful. I find it much better then any movie theater.
I've been watching HDTV movies for over two years and I've never seen anything as good as what PBS shows every day.
Frank

 

[Dalton]

Please pardon my ignorance, but what exactely is a MUSE disc?

 

[Dan Hitchman]

Dalton,
I believe it's the Japanese version of HDTV for their country. Unless they've changed the specs., it's an analog instead of digital format. The U.S. version of HDTV is recorded and transmitted digitally.
Dan
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Stop HDCP and 5C-- Your rights are at risk!

 

[Rachael B]

Muse ( Hi-Vision ) is a TV system, Japanese that is. About 100 LD's using it's codec were released between 1992 and 1997. The best lookng of them look better than DVDs. However, many do not. Yo need a Muse capable LD player like the Pioneer HLD-X9 and a decoder box to view them, oh, and a HDTV set. Muse was the orginal hi-def format chosen for the U.S. too. Then politics and patents got in the way. Best wishes!
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Rachael, the big disc cat! "...in a democracy it don't matter how stupid you are you stille get an equal share..."
AFI Film Challenge, hey I've only got 1 to go!

 

[DaViD Boulet]

quote: And who is to say that releasing 720p/1080i within 2-3 years would slow down the release of the beloved 1080p, multichannel MLP/DSD? [/quote]
Chris,
not only would a 720P/1080I disc now slow the advance of a true (unfiltered) 1080P disc with higher-fidelity audio, it might keep us from ever getting it.
The "masses" out there can see and hear a big improvement with standard definition DVD over the VHS and cable software they've lived with. That's one of the reasons DVD has been so successful...your average Joe is buying it and making it a venacular format.
The "masses" will also be able to see a big improvement with 720, 1080I, or 1080P DVD over today's SD-DVDs. But they won't see a big improvement with 1080P DVDs over native 720P or 1080I (which could be upconverted to 1080P but with lower-res due to pre-filtering for interlaced displays). Why? Because only the videophile community will have displays capable of resolving that level of detail.
Think about how long color NTSC sets have been around. Think about how few "average" people ever spent the $$ necessary to get a set that provides a really high-fidelity image. Most houses have a blurry/grainy 27" TV and are just happy. Good for us that DVD looks better than VHS even on these uncalibrated 27" TVs. 1080P won't have that same visceral advantage over the hordes of poorly-calibrated/poorly engineered HDTVs that we're assuming will be in everyone's living room in the next 10 years.
Also, only the auido purists will discern an advantage with 24/196 or DSD audio vs the highly compressed DD or DTS tracks we have today.
An esoteric group of obsessed collectors isn't enough stamina to introduce and drive an entire format...at least not one that's really affordable (remember laserdisc).
Why not push to have the format that the "masses" help us establish and pay for be the right one from the start?

PBS HDTV which is shot with HDTV cameras looks so good when line doubled to 1080P that I can sit less then one screen height away and the picture is still wonderful. I find it much better then any movie theater.
I've been watching HDTV movies for over two years and I've never seen anything as good as what PBS shows every day.

Frank (and Chris too),
Would love to see some pics of that HT of yours!!! Any website or links?
-dave
[Edited last by DaViD Boulet on November 06, 2001 at 03:05 PM]

 

[Dalton]

Thanks Dan and Rachael