West Side Story – Spielberg remake (1 Viewer)

[Mike Frezon]

But she absolutely looks like she can play the role believably.

Is that all that matters? That she looks like she belongs in the role? Or, is it essential that she actually be Hispanic? Or does she need to be of Puerto Rican descent?

My head swims trying to keep up with what's "appropriate."

I was told earlier in this thread that it would be improper to cast a white guy in the role of Martin Luther King, Jr.--despite recently having a Hispanic man play Alexander Hamilton and a black man play Thomas Jefferson in a recent play which has garnered a fair amount of critical acclaim.

I watched several of Zegler's singing videos. She's damn good for her age. There's much room for improvement but this seems like a good choice--both for the film and for her. This could make her a big star. The raw singing talent seems apparent...but I'm just an amateur talent scout.

 

[bujaki]

A lyric soprano she ain't. She needs a lot of training to learn to sing without sounding nasal (a most common affliction among "singers" of today). This role was written for someone like Carol Lawrence (Broadway) or Marni Nixon (soundtrack). She sounds nothing like them.

 

[Jake Lipson]

Is that all that matters? That she looks like she belongs in the role? Or, is it essential that she actually be Hispanic? Or does she need to be of Puerto Rican descent?

When I wrote the post you quoted, I was responding specifically to Brian's comment in the post directly above mine that the characters would consider her white because of her partial Polish ancestry. She looks Latina, and she will be playing the character of Maria as such; Maria, the character, herself is not going to be of Polish ancestry. That's the point I was trying to get across in that post. She looks the part.

Whether or not Maria must be played by someone who comes from Puerto Rico is another debate. By giving her the role, Spielberg and his team are stating that they believe her casting in the role is appropriate, or they wouldn't have done it. Others may, of course, disagree, but they are not the ones who are making the film. I, personally, have no problem with the casting of Rachel Zegler in this role, but I can only speak for myself.

As far as colorblind casting, I stand by what I said the last time we discussed it and have nothing further to add on that point. To do so would simply be regurgitating my earlier statements.

 

[Tino]

Yes. Bad examples.

Yeah. Disagree.

 

[Mike Frezon]

People are too hung up on such things as race and ethnicity in terms of casting.

And too many people try to have it both ways lending a clear cast of hypocrisy on what they find acceptable and what they find offensive.

 

[bujaki]

Can they act? Can they sing? Can they dance?

 

[Mike Frezon]

Can they act? Can they sing? Can they dance?

Pretty much...

 

[Vic Pardo]

Have you seen her photograph? She looks Latina because she is. Though she has some Polish ancestry. she's not going to be playing that in character as Maria. Natalie Wood was white and was made up to look brown. Rachel won't need to be made up to look Latina. She will be believable in the role of Maria. Whether or not you believe Maria should have been portrayed by someone of Puerto Rican ancestry is another discussion point. But she absolutely looks like she can play the role believably.

I wasn't objecting to the casting. I just thought it was funny that the actress is partially the same ethnicity as the character of Tony. Thanks to your urging, though, Jake, I did look up Ms. Zegler on Google Images, the first time I've seen her, and she certainly looks more Latina than Polish. Problem is...she may be moderately cute, but she doesn't look anywhere near as pretty as Natalie Wood. I can't imagine Tony looking at this one across the room and time standing still like in their meeting in the 1961 movie.

...and, to be honest, I can't imagine her looking across the room and seeing Ansel Elgort and giving him a second thought. Maybe if they met more casually at Doc's candy store or in school or something...

 

[Jake Lipson]

Maybe if they met more casually at Doc's candy store or in school or something...

Oh, I'm sure the dance at the gym is going to be retained. They'd be playing with fire not to include that. Whether it will work for you or not is of course another question. But I expect it to be there.

 

[Vic Pardo]

Oh, I'm sure the dance at the gym is going to be retained. They'd be playing with fire not to include that. Whether it will work for you or not is of course another question. But I expect it to be there.

I wasn't suggesting they leave out the dance at the gym. I was just suggesting they add a scene where they meet more casually first and then when they see each other all dressed up at the dance, that might incur greater interest and then they start dancing with each other...something like that.

 

[Jake Lipson]

I highly doubt that will happen. We'll see.

 

[Tino]

but she doesn't look anywhere near as pretty as Natalie Wood.

I actually think she’s much prettier than Natalie Wood.

 

[Adam Lenhardt]

Is that all that matters? That she looks like she belongs in the role? Or, is it essential that she actually be Hispanic? Or does she need to be of Puerto Rican descent?

Entirely depends on who you ask!

I was told earlier in this thread that it would be improper to cast a white guy in the role of Martin Luther King, Jr.--despite recently having a Hispanic man play Alexander Hamilton and a black man play Thomas Jefferson in a recent play which has garnered a fair amount of critical acclaim.

That's not an apples-to-apples comparison, though, because there's a long problematic history of white people in black face engaging in minstrelsy that ingrained negative stereotypes of black people into the American consciousness in ways that still cause problems to this day.

The racially diverse casting of "Hamilton" doesn't come with that same baggage. Indeed, it's designed to contemporize this little sliver of American history, and make it relatable to people who wouldn't normally feel a connection to a story about old dead white men.

I watched several of Zegler's singing videos. She's damn good for her age. There's much room for improvement but this seems like a good choice--both for the film and for her. This could make her a big star. The raw singing talent seems apparent...but I'm just an amateur talent scout.

From what I've seen and read, she's been a pretty big deal in her local theater circles for a few years now so I'm sure she's had quite a bit of vocal training. But this major professional motion picture production will provide her with access to training that you just don't get in local theater. And unlike bedroom YouTube videos or live stage performances, they can keep redoing things until they get it perfect.

Problem is...she may be moderately cute, but she doesn't look anywhere near as pretty as Natalie Wood. I can't imagine Tony looking at this one across the room and time standing still like in their meeting in the 1961 movie.

One of the things I like about this casting is that she's pretty in a real-teenager-that-you'd-see-on-the-street kind of a way, and not a breathtaking-star-of-the-silver-screen kind of a way.

Oh, I'm sure the dance at the gym is going to be retained. They'd be playing with fire not to include that. Whether it will work for you or not is of course another question. But I expect it to be there.

If it's not a dance at the gym, there will be something equivalent. Romeo & Juliet had the masquerade ball for the same reason: you need a circumstance where two people from social circles that don't mix find themselves in the same place and have a reason to interact with each other.

 

[David Weicker]

I’m more concerned about whether the people they hire can dance. WSS is a major dance musical. It’s a large part of its DNA.

If they don’t have the Dance At The Gym, they’ve castrated the show.

 

[Adam Lenhardt]

I’m more concerned about whether the people they hire can dance. WSS is a major dance musical. It’s a large part of its DNA.

They've tapped Justin Peck, who won a Tony Award last year for his choreography on the Broadway revival of Carousel, to design and execute the choreography for this. So it's something they're taking seriously.

 

[cinemiracle]

I actually think she’s much prettier than Natalie Wood.

I agree and hopefully she is a better actor as well

 

[Mike Frezon]

That's not an apples-to-apples comparison, though, because there's a long problematic history of white people in black face engaging in minstrelsy that ingrained negative stereotypes of black people into the American consciousness in ways that still cause problems to this day.

The racially diverse casting of "Hamilton" doesn't come with that same baggage. Indeed, it's designed to contemporize this little sliver of American history, and make it relatable to people who wouldn't normally feel a connection to a story about old dead white men.

To me, Adam, it is very much an apples-to-apples comparison and what you and others are engaging in is rationalization.

What's good for the goose needs to also be good for the gander. If society wants to right prior wrongs, society needs to treat all equally. You can't change a poor standard with an different, but equally-poor standard. Or, just can't just flip the discrimination and say "we'll do it the opposite way for awhile in order to level the scales of justice." The bar needs to be raised to what's right and then met by all.

In my mind, it's not right to say that it's it's wrong for whites to play roles characterizing hispanics or blacks but to say that its ground-breaking genius to cast blacks and hispanics to play historical white figures in American history.

It's not about blackface or minstrel shows. And its not about Natalie Wood playing Maria.

Why is it okay to obsess over whether the person who plays a role in West Side Story is going to be Puerto Rican but when casting important figures in history who are white that we need to be blind to race. To me, it's not. It's just another double standard.

And as for that little sliver of American history to which you refer...it's an unfortunate truth that the founding fathers in question were white guys (some old, but some young) and they are all dead now. But somehow I doubt that the colorblind casting (or intentionally casting against racial type) is the major reason that important story is reaching younger audiences.

Or, looking at it the other way, if it's okay for Leslie Odom, Jr. to play Aaron Burr then there should be no complaining about Natalie Wood playing Maria.

I hope Rachel Zegler is a great Maria. But I'm not interested at all that she's Hispanic. I just hope she can act, sing and dance the part well.

 

[cinemiracle]

It seems that everyone has a different opinion on what the new version of WEST SIDE STORY should be like. Why don't you all put your trust in Steven Spielberg as he knows what he is doing? He has rarely failed movie goers before. It is very unlikely that he would remake one of the all time greats in musical films unless he gives us a version that is different yet still retains the story,music and dance sequences. Don't forget Robert Wise gave us a different version to that of the stage show on which it was based. Nobody ever complained about that.I still have fond memories of seeing the original Roadshow release many times in 70mm (on a 62 foot wide curved screen) and without an intermission.. I also saw a brilliant stage version (Sydney) and a lousy one (NYC). One will have to see this new film version with an open mind and not compare it to the original film. Otherwise it is best that you don't see it when it is released. My only wish is that it would be filmed in 70mm and not digital.
This forum is already going on for far too long and there is nothing that any of us can do about about the re-make. Most people's opinions mean nothing.Just put your trust in Steven Spielberg.

 

[Adam Lenhardt]

To me, Adam, it is very much an apples-to-apples comparison and what you and others are engaging in is rationalization.

It's an acknowledgement of history. If something has caused decades upon decades of harm, there are different sensitivities than something that has not caused decades upon decades of harm.

In my mind, it's not right to say that it's it's wrong for whites to play roles characterizing hispanics or blacks but to say that its ground-breaking genius to cast blacks and hispanics to play historical white figures in American history.

It all depends on context. If you're making a historical docudrama, than you probably want to cast actors who look like the historical figures being portrayed. If Spielberg's Lincoln had engaged in color-blind casting, for instance, it probably wouldn't have been nearly as effective.

But that's not what Hamilton was doing. With Hamilton, Miranda was using the story of one very prominent immigrant -- Alexander Hamilton -- to tell a story about immigrants. He was telling a story where New York City is central using a cast that looks like New York City today. He was framing historical developments using a whole variety of musical genres and styles, and casting actors who were adept at the musical styles. It was a way to make this story feel contemporary and alive in a way that a straight take on the material wouldn't have. It was never meant to be a faithful recreation of the events as they actually happened.

But somehow I doubt that the colorblind casting (or intentionally casting against racial type) is the major reason that important story is reaching younger audiences.

It's one component in the larger whole that made Hamilton the phenomenon it became. I love 1776 -- and Lin-Manuel Miranda loves 1776 -- but if Hamilton had taken the same approach it wouldn't have been nearly as successful as it was.

Or, looking at it the other way, if it's okay for Leslie Odom, Jr. to play Aaron Burr then there should be no complaining about Natalie Wood playing Maria.

A key difference there is that Natalie Wood would have had a lot of roles available to her. Until fairly recently, Leslie Odom, Jr. would not have. Hollywood had a long history of casting nearly exclusively white people for roles where the race of the actor or actress wasn't integral to the role. When you're competing for roles in a much smaller slice of the pie, I can understand why it's bothersome when someone who has access to three-quarters of the pie snags roles on your little slice.

 

[Vic Pardo]

Why don't you all put your trust in Steven Spielberg as he knows what he is doing?
<SNIP>
Just put your trust in Steven Spielberg.

I have not trusted Spielberg since CLOSE ENCOUNTERS OF THE THIRD KIND (1977) and I'm not about to start trusting him now. He's never been anything to me but a highly skillful but highly glorified hack.