Try this $20 tweak (1 Viewer)

[Saurav]

I must have missed that... where did anyone say that any product demagnetized a laser? I haven't read this thread in great detail, so I think I missed it.

 

[Ron Reda]

Well, I'm in...I ordered this CD today. I guess the suspense of what it actually accomplishes got the best of me!
I'll be sure to post my aural findings...

 

[Ron Reda]

Did anyone get theirs yet?

 

[Marc_E]

I got mine saturday. I am using the brown noise to break in some cables. I used the sweap but I cant be sure of any real effect because the sound is changing because of the cables anyway.

Ill check back soon

Marc

 

[JeffMuller]

Just a thought...

For those who try to test this, I would suggest that they don't listen while they run the tones. Not discounting what Brian said, but I wonder if it's possible that these tones "train" your ears, and then when you hear your music again, it sounds "better" to you.

Sort of like an optical illusion. You stare at a dot on the wall to 20 minutes, and then when you look at a penny, you see the image of Elvis ;-) Although I'm kidding with the example, I'm serious about the "theory".

Jeff

 

[Chu Gai]

an interesting thought Jeff.

 

[Brian OK]

Jeff,

LOL.... :* )

These tones are so butt ugly they drive you from the room !

It is hiss... and more hisss... and friggin loud hiss again on the noise tones.

The glide tones are your components reproducing the energy thrown at them. It is pretty intensive if you lean on the gain. Not recommended. Your low end will work to reproduce this energy.

It is not musical AT ALL ;^)

Honestly, I wasn't thrown into a trance. The sounds are simply nothing you have ever heard reproduced by your system. That simple. No conspiracy here.

BOK

 

[RyanDinan]

Im curious as to how this disc can "ultrasonically" clean your system....

Wouldn't you need speakers capable of reproducing ultrasonic frequencies? I thought most speakers were at most, 20Hz-20kHz?

Then again, I know they use ultrasonic frequencies in the medical field to break up cells, stones, etc....

For those that have this disc, does it contain tracks that AVIA and/or VE do not?

Thanks,

-Ryan

 

[Saurav]

As far as I can tell, the whole thing about ultrasonic cleaning came from a description of an LP George Cardas sells, which ultrasonically cleans only the cartridge stylus. I haven't seen anything on this thread which indicates that a CD ultrasonically cleans anything. Cleaning a stylus is entirely possible because it is a mechanical component - AFAIK, ultrasonics are used to clean and restore old pottery and things like that too.

 

[Mike Voigt]

Ultrasonic baths (i.e. a liquid into which you immerse what you want to clean and then fire up the element producing the ultrasound) are used in several industries. Parts cleaners, jewelry cleaning, etc. Usually paired up with a chemical agent of some sort, but not always.

I can see the cleaning effect off of a record - possibly. Would be an interesting application of the transfer function from the groove shape to the stylus. Frequency matters...

For lasers, it might make sense - but only if a. the amps can amplify it (not usually a problem) b. the speakerers can reproduce it (also not necessarily a problem) and c. it gets to the laser assembly via air & case (big potential problems here - but not impossible) where it might shake loose whatever may be lodged there - at the right frequencies...

What it might do is mess with the speakers (in perhaps a good sense) and cause breakdown of inflexible portions that should be flexible. Again - possibly.

If you hadn't guessed, this is a mechanical engineer talking. Fascinating stuff, and I ain't gonna say it is impossible; for one, that would be rude, and for another, I ain't got proof either way. But I can imagine a way in which it might work.

Mike

 

[Saurav]

Interesting post. Agreed, lots of things are possible, but I would be much more sceptical about the effects of ultrasonic frequencies in a CD based system. I could be way off here, but I believe all DACs implement digital filters which cut off the ultrasonic frequencies (noise) that are produced as an unavoidable byproduct of the D-to-A conversion. This is where all the theory of noise shaping comes in too - push the noise off into the ultrasonic frequencies when it can safely be filtered out. So, I wouldn't expect much ultrasonic content to make its way to the amps/speakers. Of course, (and I'm probably starting to sound like a broken record here), I didn't see any mention of a CD doing anything ultrasonically, that was an LP that was being talked about.

Demagnetizing a transformers core - I have no idea how that would work, or what difference it would make. I don't even know if that could be done using ultrasonic frequencies.

Finally, I believe some tweeters have resonant frequencies in the ultrasonic range. These were never designed to reproduce such high frequencies, and they will ring quite heavily, which may or may not damage the tweeter. Speakers advertised as "DVD-A ready" or "SACD ready" initially sound like pure marketing BS, but they usually have frequency response up into the 30KHz - 40KHz range. Do we need it/can we hear it/respond to it? Who knows. SACD's frequency response extends beyond 20KHz, and these speakers can handle that.

 

[Chu Gai]

it may be just because the sound is so unpleasant that causes a 'perceived' improvement in certain areas. personally, i find it difficult to fathom that playing the disc fundamentally changes components of one's system. a more reasonable explanation is that it temporarily affects one hearing. so many things to test!

Saurav: are you aware of any photomicrographs that were taken to substantiate that Cardas' LP resulted in a 'cleaner' stylus?

 

[Saurav]

Saurav: are you aware of any photomicrographs that were taken to substantiate that Cardas' LP resulted in a 'cleaner' stylus?

Nope. All I'm saying is, it's easier to imagine dust being dislodged off a stylus due to ultrasonic vibrations, than anything that could happen further downstream, or off a CD. The key word there is 'imagine' It could also loosen up the suspension of an old cartridge that's been sitting around for a while, but I think that would be better done by playing music with wide dynamic and frequency range, not ultrasonic vibrations.
Edit: A quick look through the archives on Audio Asylum - some people doubt the Cardas record does anything, because industrial ultrasonic cleaning devices use frequencies in the MHz, and the Cardas LP only goes up to 30KHz or so. There are/were other ultrasonic stylus cleaning devices which require placing the stylus on a vibrating surface - this intuitively makes more sense, because you can achieve greater frequency and amplitude than you could with what can be cut onto a record. Degaussing - there are devices which feed an electrical signal back into a cartridge's coils, and some which are supposed to work just by playing certain frequencies. I don't understand static magnetic fields in transformer cores enough to have an opinion on what can work and what can't.

 

[Chu Gai]

I quite agree with your comment that ultrasonic cleaning typically involves frequencies in the MHz range although (less typically) one does see high power magnetorestrictive devices that are attached to a surface that don't get much above 20kHz. Ultrasonics cleaning frequencies in a broad sense typically range from 20K to 100,000K.

These high frequency ultrasonics are typically produced by the use of ceramic piezoelectric transducers that convert the electrical energy into mechanical energy. The piezoelectric elements change their dimension as a result of the ac current (even square waves) resulting in vibrations that can be of a fixed frequency, pulsed, multiple frequencies, etc. The cleaning effect of ultrasonics depends upon the transmission of this energy through some sort of liquid medium (aqueous, organic, combination, inclusion of salts or detergents, etc.) to result in cavitation and implosion. At the implosion sites, temperatures of ~10,000F and pressures of 10,000 psi have been calculated. No wonder that people are cautioned about cleaning their precious stones in this type of medium.

Sure its possible for particles to be dislodged while playing vinyl however that is more likely a random effect involving physical contact. Kind of like you running your finger on the car and picking up a bit of dirt.

Cardas continues to attempt to confound people with speculation and misappropriation of scientific terms but then after a while those 20's (or is it more?) start to add up. Its a pity that the useful aspects of these products are intertwined with wishful claims.

 

[Manuel Delaflor]

Chu,

Is good to read, finally, the real thing. This is, among other reasons, why I insist to know exactly what is going on (or be as close as possible) before making a decision. This includes cables, interconnects, power conditioners, black boxes, etc.

The only tweek that I know it works, is using specialized DSP processors.

 

[Ron Reda]

For those who try to test this, I would suggest that they don't listen while they run the tones. Not discounting what Brian said, but I wonder if it's possible that these tones "train" your ears, and then when you hear your music again, it sounds "better" to you.

Jeff,
You just may be right on this one. I received my copy and checked out track 7 last night...according to the documentation, this is the track that they most want you to use. It's basically a sweep from 5hz to 20Khz. I was curious (why, I don't know), so I sat there and listened while the track played. Once it was done (wow, that 20Khz frequency is somewhat painful...dogs in my neighborhood started barking
), I tried a CD I know quite well. I noticed no difference. Now, I'm no golden-eared audiophile, but I can usually make out subtle differences in my system and I heard nothing. Like Jeff said, I felt that it was more like a tune up for my ears. Before I scream "snake oil," I'll give it the benefit of the doubt and try it again in about a week or two. This time, I'll leave the room!

 

[Ron Reda]

Any other opinions on this CD? Anybody? Bueller?