The Sorkin-Less 'West Wing' (1 Viewer)

[David Rogers]

Sorkin was the reason to watch. His writing, his use of characters and characterization, his ability to world build, the pacing and unique style of wordsmithing he imbued both West Wing and Sports Night with .... without him there's no reason to watch West Wing.

Sad really.

 

[MattBu]

I concur. Contrasting the Sorkin west wings with the newer ones is actually sad because it's as if invasion of the body snatchers has taken over the show. For myself it's not so much the snappy dialogue as it is the pacing of the show. Everything is so linear now.

 

[DanielCo]

Just want to toss this into the West Wing discussion. Note to Golden Globe and Emmy voters: ENOUGH!

I like Alison Janney's portrayal of C.J. on West Wing. She IS NOT and HAS NEVER BEEN a lead actress in this show. It says a great deal about the deart of actual female leads on television that this supporting character is allowed to be nominated in the lead category.

I feel better now, thank you.

 

[Rich Malloy]

Well, since no one else bothered to comment on Wednesday night's new WEST WING, allow me:

Cancel this fucker already.

 

[PhilipG]

That's a bit harsh, Rich. I enjoyed seeing John Goodman back, as well as the ever-dependable James Cromwell (who's been a movie president a couple of times IIRC).

Having said that...

...Unfortunately I've been rewatching season 1 on DVD, and yes, the quality difference is appreciable. Like comparing a top-of-the-line Jag with a middle-of-the-line Ford.

 

[Lew Crippen]

I agree Rich—regrettably, the only retained portion of Sorkin is his occasional unfortunate forays into maudlin sentimentality. Now unleavened.

Not only has the entire staff begun taking valium, the story lines are really becoming disconnected (e.g. what did Leo and his daughter have to do with anything?)

The show must be on its last legs: not only did the writers take easy shots at Saudi Arabia (merited or not) but they used a former president’s death as an occasion to bring back John Goodman and to allow a very forced discussion from supposedly several points of view on the Middle East.

I hate to say this, but won’t vote for Jeb, unless he turns the campaign around. And I don’t expect that he will get a second term.

 

[LarryDavenport]

Lew,

Jeb is in his second term. He was relected at the end of Season 2 or beginning of S3.

 

[Lew Crippen]

Only a (feeble) attempt at humor, Larry.

 

[Jim DiJoseph]

By the way, gentlemen, it's "Jed" (not "Jeb") Bartlet. You scared me there, Lew...for a split second, I thought you were referring to Jeb Bush, thus taking this thread into no-no land!

I thought the episode had some redeeming value. Do I think this year is on par with Sorkin's tenure? No, certainly not. But some of the more recent episodes have been interesting and entertaining. I'll keep watching for now...

 

[Chad R]

The idea of a former president dying was intriguing, and ripe with possibilities for good, reflefctive drama. But the framing device of the Middle East was a bad choice.

Every season has one or two stinkers, and this season has had some good episodes, even if it isn't on par with the Sorkin years.

 

[Ivan Lindenfeld]

I am with the folks that think the Sorkinless TWW is not just not as good, but not very good at all.

Saying that, I thought this weeks ep was pretty good, actually. It was funny, it was dramatic and I really enjoyed Goodman, Cromwell and some of the other guests.

Did Lily Tomlin get killed off and I missed it? Nobody seems to enter the Oval Office from that side anymore. Isn't that also where Charlie's desk is? And where is Stockard Channing? Where is Amy? Hell, I know she only occasionally guested, but where is the President's daughter that was almost killed and that Charlie still pines after?

In other words, where are some of my favorite parts of TWW?

Is it true that Sorkin is in rehab?

Could I ask more damn questions?

 

[Henry Gale]

TOBY: "This is like the Voyage of the Damned."
C.J.: "That's Village of the Damned."

 

[VicRuiz]

Jeb is in his second term. He was relected at the end of Season 2 or beginning of S3

Jed was re-elected on episode 7 of S4 ("Election Night").

 

[Chad R]

Stockard Channing is the only regular cast member from those you mentioned, therefore only her absence (espeically in light of the ex-President passing) was conspicuous. Bartlett's daughters are never on regularly, neither is Lilly Tomlin who does the show irregularly.

However, didn't you notice that Leo's daughter returned from oblivion? I can't remember seeing her since Season 1. If she was in any after that, I don't remember them.

 

[PhilipG]

I like Alison Janney's portrayal of C.J. on West Wing. She IS NOT and HAS NEVER BEEN a lead actress in this show.

As far as I'm concerned, she's the lead actress, just as Martin Sheen is the lead actor. Sure it's an ensemble show, not the Adventures of Jed and Claudia-Jean. But those two just stand out above the rest in terms of acting. IMHO.

 

[KerryK]

It's true that Janney and Sheen stand out, but by that argument, Jack Black is the lead in High Fidelity.

I agree with Ivan that I thought this was one of the best episodes in a while. What I always liked about the show was the political side of it. (I think my favorite episode was when they used the pocket veto - I was just so excited to see something like that on TV!) And there was some of that going on this week. I enjoyed them at least discussing the difficult position that governments put themselves in by meddling in the internal affairs of a country. It's an interesting and long-standing debate and it's nice to see politics on TV portrayed as something other than pure evil on one side and pure good on the other.

 

[DaveBB]

My girlfriend and I were watching lasting week's (12-7) episode and she fell asleep about half way through. When she woke up she asked "What did I miss?" and I said "Nothing, absolutely nothing."

I've given up on "The West Wing.":frowning:

 

[PhilipG]

It's true that Janney and Sheen stand out, but by that argument, Jack Black is the lead in High Fidelity.

Not really. High Fidelity has obvious lead characters. West Wing is an ensemble show. There just aren't awards of the same calibre to simply exclude West Wing from the Best Actor/Actress voting (esp. when a number of other West Wing actors deserve to be vying for the Best Supporting awards).

 

[NeilO]

Erm, not anymore. Didn't you notice - she's not listed in the opening credits any more.

Actually, for all this season and I think last season as well, Stockard Channing seemed to only be in the opening credits in episodes where she actually appeared.

Neil

 

[Chad R]

Woo, I'm depressed again. The season had started to pick up around the shutdown episode (the first, not its resolution), but these last two have been torturous, confirming my worst fears at the start of the season.

Gabrielle Union's inclusion is an obvious attempt to ramp up the "look" of the show, when in the past they relied on the 'smart is sexy' mantra. Then, with the President being such a stickler for the sanctity of the office and desire for professionalism, he would never have allowed that display. He would have asked Charlie to step outside, away from the Oval Office. Not to mention the whole not being able to date a person due to their jobs has been done, twice.

Toby's new assistant just reeks of future melodrama, especially since they reminded us of his, "she's a lawsuit waiting to happen" line in the previously on. Bad, bad, bad decision. These guys are too busy for personal lives, that's been a stalwart theme on the show since its inception.

And I know that the staff of the West Wing has been over-simplified for the show, but where is the new Deputy Communications Director? That's a key position to the show that's still empty since Will went to work for the Vice President (another terrible choice on John Wells's part).

The Mandatory Minimum storyline was handled very obviously and heavy handed. I'm not saying Sorking never drove points home as hard, but it at least had flair when he did. This had all the panache of a howitzer.

I know I may seem wishy washy with my reactions to this season, but it did start to improve last fall, but it has just fallen well below par with these last two shows. I'll give it to the end of the season to be fair, but I may abandon it then.