International THE ALAMO (John Wayne's extended cut) (1 Viewer)

[cremers andre]

Encore MERCI a Koch, allemand car je crois que la version longue ne sortira jamais en mieux

 

[bujaki]

Encore MERCI a Koch, allemand car je crois que la version longue ne sortira jamais en mieux

Tant pis pour nous.

 

[Indy Guy]

I just got the Koch set from CeDe in Switzerland, and was mostly impressed with the entire effort. On my Oppo the theatrical version shows a bit rate average of about 34. On the Directors Cut the bit rate average drops to around 24, but still looks nice. The added theatrical footage hovers around 8 to 12 in the extended sequences...on the high end for DVD quality.
The sound for both versions is very good and glides seamlessly between the inserted and theatrical segments. This quality of the sound helps you forget about the visual changes. Of the 40 minutes of additional running time, at least 10 minutes comprises the Overture, Intermission, Entr'acte and Exit Music. These musical additions are beautifully recorded, and take up 25% of the additional running time.
All and all, much more entertaining and less disturbing than the still photo inserts done in the roadshow restoration of "A Star is Born."

 

[OliverK]

The longer cut really is not much to look at. It's okay to get a sense of what a longer continuity might have been like, but that is all it is good for IMO. Koch did a good job of combining the good general release footage with the laserdisc footage. But when it cuts from the one to the other the difference is night and day and takes me out of the picture. I would never pick this hybrid version as the "go-to" version.

While it pains me to know that we could have done much better if MGM would have been more willing to allow outside help and funding I am sure that many will be happy to retire their LD version of the longer cut.

The important thing for people who like the longer version is that it looks a lot improved due to the content from the general release. One ends up with a ca. 200 minute movie experience where about 170 minutes looks quite good or it is just the overture or intermission playing so there is no reduced picture quality in those added minutes. Overall about 15% does not look as good but it adds a lot to the story for many people and it restores the roadshow experience.

Yes the quality difference is jarring and they could have done without the downconversion of the general footage - it doesn't really help and lessens the quality when viewed on a big screen. If another company wanted to go even further they could scan an old 35mm roadshow print for the extended footage and insert that but it would be rather difficult to even find one of those and it would come with its own set of issues so probably not worth it to a small boutique label.

Until that happens kudos to Koch for having the idea and going through with it - I can finally look forward to somehow enjoy the longer cut of The Alamo!

 

[RolandL]

LD

Blu-ray

LD

Blu-ray

 

[mark brown]

I would be a lot happier if the Todd-AO logo were to appear in the opening credits!

 

[battlebeast]

While it pains me to know that we could have done much better if MGM would have been more willing to allow outside help and funding I am sure that many will be happy to retire their LD version of the longer cut.

The important thing for people who like the longer version is that it looks a lot improved due to the content from the general release. One ends up with a ca. 200 minute movie experience where about 170 minutes looks quite good or it is just the overture or intermission playing so there is no reduced picture quality in those added minutes. Overall about 15% does not look as good but it adds a lot to the story for many people and it restores the roadshow experience.

Yes the quality difference is jarring and they could have done without the downconversion of the general footage - it doesn't really help and lessens the quality when viewed on a big screen. If another company wanted to go even further they could scan an old 35mm roadshow print for the extended footage and insert that but it would be rather difficult to even find one of those and it would come with its own set of issues so probably not worth it to a small boutique label.

Until that happens kudos to Koch for having the idea and going through with it - I can finally look forward to somehow enjoy the longer cut of The Alamo!

There ARE NO MORE roadshow prints. That’s the whole problem. MGM has the last print (as far as I know), but won’t it be restored or even used.

 

[OliverK]

There ARE NO MORE roadshow prints. That’s the whole problem. MGM has the last print (as far as I know), but won’t it be restored or even used.

As I wrote it would be very hard to find a 35mm roadshow print but IF 35mm roadshow prints were struck there would always be the possibility that one remains with a collector.

 

[Robert Harris]

As I wrote it would be very hard to find a 35mm roadshow print but IF 35mm roadshow prints were struck there would always be the possibility that one remains with a collector.

Roadshow 35s were struck. The portions that I located, were turned over to MGM, but that doesn’t solve the problems.

 

[OliverK]

Roadshow 35s were struck. The portions that I located, were turned over to MGM, but that doesn’t sole the problems.

It would be a nicer band-aid but still a band-aid and if it is with MGM it may be difficult for a company like Kino to access those elements.

Speaking of the roadshow prints has it ever come to light why for the LD release MGM did not keep the proper roadshow sequence and instead went for a different version?

 

[Robert Harris]

It would be a nicer band-aid but still a band-aid and if it is with MGM it may be difficult for a company like Kino to access those elements.

Speaking of the roadshow prints has it ever come to light why for the LD release MGM did not keep the proper roadshow sequence and instead went for a different version?

Someone apparently damaged it in transfer.

 

[battlebeast]

Is the roadshow version intact somewhere or is it a mish-mash of pieces cobbled together?

 

[OliverK]

Someone apparently damaged it in transfer.

Looks like they only had their finest experts working on it.

 

[OliverK]

Is the roadshow version intact somewhere or is it a mish-mash of pieces cobbled together?

From what I remember the 70mm roadshow print was cut into ca. 1000ft pieces that then were not stored properly. Some "rejuvenation" treatment that may have helped in the short term with the LD transfer probably made things worse and now the roadshow seems to be in a rather sorry state.

How sorry we do not know as MGM does not seem to have plans to do anything with the roadshow at this point and they also do not like to talk about it.

 

[SwatDB]

How sorry we do not know as MGM does not seem to have plans to do anything with the roadshow at this point and they also do not like to talk about it.

In short (like back when Twilight Time was releasing "Hawaii" (1966) on Blu-ray):

"MGM/UA did not think to do a hi-def master of the roadshow version which has now all but disappeared from view."

 

[Kiev7385]

Amazon.de (Germany) is taking DOMESTIC pre-orders only for a May 12th release of The Alamo. The release will include 2 discs with the theatrical version (162 minutes) on BluRay and the extended cut of 3 hours 22 minutes on DVD. Koch Film Shop is the distributor and their advertisement shows Region B. For those interested in purchasing the Alamo please be patient hopefully by the end of summer Amazom.de will sell this particular release to international buyers.

Any feedback on this Release yet?

 

[David Norman]

Starting around Post 100 in this thread, there's a few dozen or more

 

[Robert Harris]

It would be a nicer band-aid but still a band-aid and if it is with MGM it may be difficult for a company like Kino to access those elements.

Speaking of the roadshow prints has it ever come to light why for the LD release MGM did not keep the proper roadshow sequence and instead went for a different version?

They tore the film.

 

[OliverK]

They tore the film.

Oh yes, forgot about that. They must have torn quite a bit as otherwise it would not explain the substantial deviations from the roadshow.

 

[Randy Korstick]

Sure hope someone in the US picks this up. Amazon Germany cancelled my order a few weeks back as this is sold out.