International THE ALAMO (John Wayne's extended cut) (1 Viewer)

[LouA]

Seems that the German version is sold out, and the French version is unacceptable. So we need a US release. At this point, who has the rights to MGM’s library?

 

[David Norman]

Seems that the German version is sold out, and the French version is unacceptable. So we need a US release. At this point, who has the rights to MGM’s library?

Partial correction or maybe clarification -- Amazon/de exclusive is sold out, Koch is still selling their version. Koch doesn't ship outside the EU so you'll need some help to get it and currently it will cost upwards $55-60USD shipped from Germany

cede.com still lists the Koch version though has been listed 1-2 wks backordered for 2-3 weeks now so some question whether they will be getting more -- plus nearly $80USD shipped to the US

It is still B-locked so hoping for a US release is useful on several fronts for those who don;t have/don't want that option

 

[OliverK]

I would bet that the french version used the 480i LD master directly, while the german version used a 480p source and digitally up-scaled and enhanced it to 720p, intercutting it with the 1080p general release version that was down-scaled to 720p.

More effort, yielding a vastly superior result. More expense as well.

Maybe there is also a 480i VHS master? Never heard of it but it looks a lot worse than what we see on the Koch disc.

 

[OliverK]

Is that screencap from a deleted scene? This looks amazing for a upconverted 4:3 SD master.

Yes, that's it. I was a bit surprised about how good the cap looks as it does not really hold up in my projection setups but I am usually sitting really close. With a bit more distance of let's say 2 to 3 screen widths it looks surprisingly good so the overall experience of watching the longer version will be more seamless than expected.

 

[DVBRD]

Seems that the German version is sold out, and the French version is unacceptable. So we need a US release. At this point, who has the rights to MGM’s library?

At this point, MGM hasn't merged with Amazon yet. The best bet is that MGM will license it to Kino Lorber.

 

[DVBRD]

Maybe there is also a 480i VHS master? Never heard of it but it looks a lot worse than what we see on the Koch disc.

The roadshow version was released on VHS but I assume it was from the same master used for the LD.

 

[Randy Korstick]

The roadshow version was released on VHS but I assume it was from the same master used for the LD.

It was but it was 240i standard vhs vs. 420i standard LD.

 

[Vern Dias]

It was but it was 240i standard vhs vs. 420i standard LD.

You mean 480i, right? And the LD had absolutely terrible line twitter due to the interlacing.....

 

[DVBRD]

It was but it was 240i standard vhs vs. 420i standard LD.

Wouldn't they have come from the same 1-inch tape master regardless of the picture quality differences of the two formats?

You mean 480i, right? And the LD had absolutely terrible line twitter due to the interlacing.....

LaserDiscs used 420i resolution, not 480.

 

[OliverK]

LD and VHS both were 480i formats (vertical resolution) but LD had more than 400 lines of horizontal resolution per picture height (also called TVL) and VHS only had 240. So in todays terms VHS would have had a resolution of about 320 x 480i resolution and if we go with 420 lines for LD it would have had 560 x 480i resolution. And that was for luma, chroma was even worse and there the advantage of LD was much higher as it was 120 TVL for LD vs only 30 TVL for VHS.

 

[LouA]

LD and VHS both were 480i formats (vertical resolution) but LD had more than 400 lines of horizontal resolution per picture height (also called TVL) and VHS only had 240. So in todays terms VHS would have had a resolution of about 320 x 480i resolution and if we go with 420 lines for LD it would have had 560 x 480i resolution. And that was for luma, chroma was even worse and there the advantage of LD was much higher as it was 120 TVL for LD vs only 30 TVL for VHS.

What about the difference between CLV and CAV?

 

[Josh Steinberg]

Those differences ultimately come into play after the creation of a master that’s used to make the disc - so whether it was CAV or CLV, it was still being sourced from the same master.

 

[OliverK]

What about the difference between CLV and CAV?

Not much of a difference, supposedly 10 to 20 horizontal lines.
I am not sure that there is a real world example of the same LD master of sufficiently high quality being out there that could show the difference.

In any case at 30 minutes per side I do consider CAV to be less than practical for watching movies that will usually extend to 4 or even 5 sides on many movies if one was to press them to CAV.

We have come a long way with how much we can fit on a much smaller disc without sacrificing quality.

 

[cremers andre]

Bonjour encore quelque images de la version longue de Koch. film

 

[cremers andre]

Quelque images de la version longue ESC éditions

 

[Robert Harris]

Ugly as sin.

 

[David_B_K]

Ugly as sin.

The longer cut really is not much to look at. It's okay to get a sense of what a longer continuity might have been like, but that is all it is good for IMO. Koch did a good job of combining the good general release footage with the laserdisc footage. But when it cuts from the one to the other the difference is night and day and takes me out of the picture. I would never pick this hybrid version as the "go-to" version.

The general release version is the best I have seen it look on home video. I wish someone would post screenshots of the good footage alongside the up converted footage to show how bad the up converted one looks in comparison to the real HD version. If no one else does so I will try to make time to do it the next day or two. There is a lot of detail in things like the Indian designs on some of Crockett's leather accoutrements that are just lost in the LD footage. I just hope people aren't paying exorbitant prices on Ebay for the Koch disc in the hope that it is some sort of holy grail edition.

 

[David_B_K]

Here are a couple of scenes. I didn't spend much time on this, and I wanted to choose shots that were both downrezzed and not.

Uprezzed LD shot:

2K shot (resized to 1280 x 720):

Uprezzed LD shot:

2K shot resized to 1280x720:

 

[Richard Kaufman]

One (Koch, German) recently sold on eBay for over 230 euros. Thankfully I was one of many underbidders. The day after the auction I received a second chance offer for $100. Considering the price of the disc and postage from Germany, that didn't seem like a terrible deal so I took it. Looking forward to see the director's cut again after 20 years.

 

[LouA]

Agreed since they cut out the resolution for Emil Sand in the theatrical cut they should have removed all his scenes in the theatrical and kept key scenes like where did they get the additional cannons, where did the additional volunteers come from that make up the proper number at the Alamo. Also the key scene where Bowie talks to his servant that sets up the scene where he frees him. The Birthday Party maybe corny and filler but adding the lyrics to the main theme song "Oh Lisa" has a great emotional payoff later in the film when Lisa says "listen Mommy they're playing my song". I like the Emil Sand subplot in the extended version when it is completed with the action scene. There are actually several action scenes missing in the theatrical.

Right on the mark on all points!