SW: Special Edition Gripes...

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by DeathStar1, Apr 25, 2002.

  1. DeathStar1

    DeathStar1 Producer

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    Small ones, but gripes none the less. Can't beleive I'm watching these movies on 'free' TV with Commercials, but what the hell...

    First one that bugs me, the Dagobah cave. Why'd they change Vaders breathing in that scene? The new sound just seems....weird and distracting.

    Second, Lukes Screen at the end. The timing is off, it seems out of place, and it just dosn't fit.

    If they release DVD's, maby they can make the ULTIMATE Edition. Change things that didn't work from the SE's back to the original version, and keep what did work...
     
  2. StephenA

    StephenA Screenwriter

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    Well the scream isn't actually Luke's. It's the Emperor's rehashed from Return of the Jedi. I like the original version of the scene better where Luke doesn't screm. It's like he's accepting his fate like any Jedi would. I don't like alot of the changes throughout the SEs.

    I also hate watching movies on local channels and basic cable channels because they are cut up so bad, not to mention they are usually in pan and scan.
     
  3. Gruson

    Gruson Second Unit

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    I hate the SEs.
     
  4. John P Grosskopf

    John P Grosskopf Second Unit

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    With Episode IV, I'm a bit peeved at the incosistancy of the picture as it was shown theatrically and on laserdisc. All throughout the film the picture shifts randomly in hue and saturation, probably due to the aging film stock which had its share of fading problems. With as much money as they spent do the digital effects, youd think they could have fixed the fading with color timing either chimically or digitally. At the very least this could have been cleared up for the video release where the HD master existed totally in the digital domain. this was a real missed opportunity, as they left the restoration job unfinished in this regard. Ironically, the other widescreen non SE LD versions do not exhibit the colorshift to a degree anywhere near that of the SEs.
    Also, having Greedo shoot first was idiotic, and was one of the obvious signs that Lucas sniffed a little too much white out when he did the re-writes for the SE. This really limited Han's character growth by showing he was already a man with a concious rather than a self-serving pirate who gained one by being a part of the rebellion's fight. This lessens the surprise bailing out of Luke at the end by telegraphing Han's moral side way too early in the film. It's also one of the worst effects in the SE version BTW. The worst of course would have to be the CGI Jabba.
    Add to the list the crappy CGI speeder sequence through Tatooine, the CGI robots doing slapstick, and Ben's home being transformed into something more ornate than what might be expected of a hermit Jedi.
    With Episode V, I'd have to agree that Luke's scream really sucked ass big time. Also, showing Vader's shuttle leaving Bespin using outakes from Jedi was truly misguided, as it required a bad sound alike to loop dialogue for Vader to "crowbar" the added footage into place.
    With Episode VI, I'm disappointed that Lucas didn't digitally remove the Ewoks. This is truly the most shamefully missed opportunity of the whole SE version of the trilogy![​IMG]
     
  5. DeathStar1

    DeathStar1 Producer

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    >Also, having Greedo shoot first was idiotic, and was one of the obvious signs that Lucas sniffed a little too much white out when he did the re-writes for the SE. This really limited Han's character growth by showing he was already a man with a concious rather than a self-serving pirate who gained one by being a part of the rebellion's fight..

    >

    Agreed. If Lucas recently admitted that PHantom Menace really stunk, maby he can finally admit that this was a bad PC decision.

    >With Episode V, I'd have to agree that Luke's scream really sucked ass big time. Also, showing Vader's shuttle leaving Bespin using outakes from Jedi was truly misguided, as it required a bad sound alike to loop dialogue for Vader to "crowbar" the added footage into place. >>

    I didn't mind the shuttle scene, but it really wasn't needed. My guess is they had to add SOMETHING new to call it a Special Edition, and the Whampa footage alone really isn't going to cut it. And not calling back James Earl Jones was a dis-service..

    IS anyone lurking on these boards from Lucas Film? Just out of curiosity...
     
  6. Ric Easton

    Ric Easton Cinematographer

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    One thing I wish they had changed in Empire was to get rid of that holographic transmission of the Emperor with the weird monkey eyes and replace it with Ian McDiarmid. It's not like the actor was not available for futre Star Wars movies.

    -Ric
     
  7. Calvin Watts III

    Calvin Watts III Supporting Actor

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  8. ScottR

    ScottR Cinematographer

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    Star Wars Episode IV: Special Edition is WAY too dark, and too blue. I noticed this in theatres, and it is that way on video..also, it is cropped from its original aspect ratio...I don't know if it was matted down to 2.35:1 on video, but that is not the ratio of the actual picture information.
     
  9. Jay Rodriguez

    Jay Rodriguez Stunt Coordinator

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    I have mixed feelings about the Original trilogy. I'm assuming we've all seen it. I don't think it has the impact that it used to, now that we have the prequels. I still love all the movies, but here's what I mean:

    - Now we know Vader is Lukes dad, thus making the revelation in ESB not as surprising.

    - We know Leia is Lukes sister, thus making the revelation in RoTJ not as strong and the feelings Luke has in ANH, just awkward.

    - We know that Luke immediately finds Yoda on Dagobah, so it's no longer surprising that the crazy hermit guy Luke finds is actually a Jedi master.

    These are just minor. They will not take away from how much I like the Star Wars saga. It's just I remember the "oomph" I got when I first saw these movies, and I was hoping that it could be preserved for future new viewers. By the way, I'm assuming that by Ep. 3, Anakin and Padme will have the twins and name them Luke and Leia.
     
  10. Jay Rodriguez

    Jay Rodriguez Stunt Coordinator

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    One last thing....

    Han shot first.

    After reading my last post...I suppose from Lukes point of view, all the things I listed in my last post, every revelation is still pretty powerful. I'm still curious as to what you guys think about it.
     
  11. Yee-Ming

    Yee-Ming Producer

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    unfortunately, a lot of the impact in ESB really rests on Luke not knowing that Vader was dear old dad. for us old fogies, the point is moot and I just hope that AotC and Ep3 do a good job in telling the story of Anakin's inevitable fall to the Dark Side, seeing as we know he's going to get there. much like Memento, then.

    FWIW, IMHO for our future sprogs, or any hermits out there who really have no clue about SW, I would think they should watch it in the same order we did, i.e. SW, ESB and RotJ, before moving to TPM, AotC and Ep3.
     
  12. Matt Stone

    Matt Stone Lead Actor

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    I don't think that the fact that we know Vader is Luke's father, etc...really takes away from the film. For me I like going though and watching Luke's interaction with other characthers regarding "his father" before he knows the truth.
     
  13. Terrell

    Terrell Producer

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    I like all of the changes in the special editions except for the scream, Greedo shooting first, the addition of Jabba in ANH, the silly musical number in ROTJ, the changin of Vader's "bring my shuttle line in ESB. The Wampa scene is a great change. Not only does it add tension to that scene, but it's just plain scarier. And the changes are seamless. As for the CGI additions to Cloud City, the end celebration in ROTJ, the additions to the space battle in ANH, the Mos Eisly spaceport, and all the other additions are very good. They really don't hurt the pacing of the film, and they don't detract from those scenes.

    Now, I still want the originals. But I like those changes.
     
  14. Brian W. Ralston

    Brian W. Ralston Supporting Actor

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    If you guys are having problems with those changes to the original trilogy. I guess you all wouldn't want to know that Lucas is having John Williams go back and re-score the first film to include the Imperial March throughout the film. Since....in the entire six film series, this would be the only film without that musical theme.
     
  15. Mark Hobbs

    Mark Hobbs Stunt Coordinator

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    I, too, hate the SEs. What little they add (Wampa) is far, far outweighed by the idiocy of the bad changes (most of the rest of them).
     
  16. Terrell

    Terrell Producer

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    Just for the sake of conversation, what is bad about the added elements to Cloud City, other than Vader's line being changed? What is bad about the updating of the space battle in ANH? Those changes make the space battle look far better than in the original. I also don't see what's so bad about the end change to ROTJ. When the empire was destroyed, you had to know that the entire galaxy would have been celebrating. And the additions were seamless. I agree that 5 or 6 of the changes were senseless, and just plain bad. But many of the additions don't hurt the film at all, other than giving it an updated look.
     
  17. John P Grosskopf

    John P Grosskopf Second Unit

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  18. Terrell

    Terrell Producer

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    I stated the additions of Jabba and Luke's terrible scream were sloppily done. And they should be taken out. But I've watched the SEs of all three films in the last 3 days on my SE THX LD box set. And the additions I talked about are seamless audibly and visually. These changes are very bad and should be taken out. I agree with you on these.

    1. Greedo shooting first is just plain bad and changes Han's character.

    2. The addition of the Jabba scene in ANH is terrible.

    3. Luke wretched and badly done scream in ESB changes not only that scene, but is piss-poor.

    4. Changing Vader's line from "bring my shuttle" to "alert my command ship to prepare for my arrival" is pointless.

    5. The musical number in Jabba's palace in ROTJ is ridiculous.

    There's another change that I don't like that I always forget. I prefer the originals, and I hate the changes listed about in the SEs. But the other changes to me are seamless and are very good. I see none of the other changes hurting the film.
     
  19. Joseph Young

    Joseph Young Screenwriter

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    I can't stand:
    Han/Greedo scene: Lucas wants Han to be a role model for the kids. He is afraid to let kids witness their heroes 'shooting first.' But in my opinion we are supposed to watch Han go through a character arc and that scene is very important toward establishing his introduction. Ok.. so let's say you don't think it matters: Why couldn't they have just added a quick audio cue, such as Greedo making a sudden exclamation which implies he is about to shoot... so then it could still be considered self-defense and not include that utterly distracting horrible visual laser blast. You can see the wrecked framing with Han's head against the wall... they actually froze the frame for a slight moment.
    The Luke scream: What on earth was Lucas thinking?? I remember seeing The Empire Strikes Back in the theater as a kid, and I disinctively remember being strongly affected by the fact that Luke resigns to hit fate. His silence while falling is profound to the film. He would rather die than turn to the dark side.. he is accepting his fate like a true Jedi. By adding that scream, Lucas utterly ruined the profundity of that scene and reduced it to just another action sequence.
    Musical Sequence/Kiddie CGI Slapstick: To see exactly where Lucas is coming from on this, just watch the ultra-extended Pod Race Introduction sequence on Disc 2 of the TPM DVD. He went way overboard (and to his credit, he realized it before adding it to the film). The sequence, in particular, of one alien pod racer's family and newborn kids... my god, it's an entirely different movie. He seemed more interesting in developing character design than actual chararacters. So much effort and work goes into designing wardrobe, new alien designs, alien names, state of the art CGI limb motion... but in my opinion, character and story can suffer because of this.
    I thought that the cleanup work done on the ATAT Battle, the asteroid sequence and others was really nice. The matte effects added to the windows in Bespin were actually really nice; the warm glow, etc. All those effects served was to add to the environment without distracting too much from the story. Now, had Lucas decided to add lots of slapstick CGI creatures ambling down the hallways on Hoth, Bespin, the Death Star, etc. (to be honest I'm shocked that he didn't)... ugh [​IMG]
    Or could you imagine Yoda doing a song & dance routine to Luke on Dagobah, a la Fraggle Rock, to explain the realities of the force?
    You've got to give in to the force
    Let it take you to wondrous places
    Don't give in to fear, to anger or hate
    Let me show you the way!!
    [Yoda knocks aside a family of cute Hubites (trademark) who are sitting on a log. They proceed to scramble around cutely, doing hi-fives and pit droid 3 stooges moves

    Joseph
     
  20. Mike Broadman

    Mike Broadman Producer

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    I've only seen the SE once, so please refresh my memory: where is this scream by Luke everyone is talking about? I remember he screams "Nooooo!" when Vader tells him he's his father, but that's it.
     

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