SVS vs Velodyne SPL vs Sunfire

Discussion in 'Speakers' started by MichaelJL, Jun 5, 2003.

  1. MichaelJL

    MichaelJL Auditioning

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2003
    Messages:
    5
    Likes Received:
    0
    I see where repeatedly everyone on this forum raves about the SVS PB2+ ($1199 at 18"x25"Hx28").

    I searched around and found
    Velodyne SPL 1200 ($830 at 15"x15"Hx16") and
    Sunfire True Sub II ($1100 at 11"x11"x11")
    appear to have about the same market price.

    Everyone seems to claim that SVS has bigger bang for the buck. Does the PB2+ excel above these?

    I gather the size of the speaker itself is a drawback compared to the others.
     
  2. MikeLi

    MikeLi Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    May 6, 2003
    Messages:
    945
    Likes Received:
    0
    I hope to get the SVS BP2+. I have two NHT subs and they just have never done it for me. After searching the forums for almost 2 years now I can tell you I would not think of buying anything but an SVS sub. Take the time and go back and do a search here and over at avs.com and hometheaterspot.com and see what you find.
     
  3. VinhT

    VinhT Second Unit

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2002
    Messages:
    357
    Likes Received:
    0
    The Velodyne and Sunfire are compromised subs. The SVS is not. I will let the others elaborate. [​IMG]
     
  4. Ryan Schnacke

    Ryan Schnacke Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2001
    Messages:
    876
    Likes Received:
    0
    Any sub makes compromises. SVS included. Its just that SVS gives up convenient cabinet size in order to achieve incredible performance.

    The PB2+ is certainly capable of higher output levels than the other two mentioned. In fact, I'd be surprised if it didn't outperform two of the other subs by a fair margin. Remember that this sub is the equivalent of two of the very impressive PC+ subwoofers.

    Sunfire especially tends to appeal to a different market. It is designed to be as small as possible while still providing a credible home theater performance. That's the polar opposite of SVS's best-bang-for-the-buck-and-who-cares-how-big-it-is approach.

    I have a very understanding wife and a large living room so I'm allowed to have two sonosubs. One of those bears the SVS label. The other is my own creation. For those not interested in the DIY route I whole-heartedly recommend SVS.
     
  5. Eric C D

    Eric C D Second Unit

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2001
    Messages:
    285
    Likes Received:
    0
    Compromises in each option

    Velodyne: larger than sunfire, but cheaper.
    Sunfire; smallest, but more expensive than Velodyne
    SVS (PB2+); much larger, much more output. (I think Ryan is correct that you can expect probably at lest twice as much output).

    The SVS's that compare more directly in output to those two is the 25-31 PCI at $550 plus shipping or the 25-31 PC+ at $775 plus shipping. The comparison is then: less expensive, but larger. (but the footprint is about that of the velodyne).

    good luck,

    Eric
     
  6. Steve Morgan

    Steve Morgan Second Unit

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 1999
    Messages:
    327
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Farm in Kansas
    Real Name:
    Steve
    I have had the PB2 connected for 2 days now. I had a Servo 15a and a Von Schweikert S/3 running together. The PB2 I would say is about 3 Servos and an S/3. Read the post PB2 in Da House. It says it all!
    Steve
     
  7. Tom Vodhanel

    Tom Vodhanel Cinematographer

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 1998
    Messages:
    2,215
    Likes Received:
    8
    Hi Michael,

    As others already pointed out...the SVS has a drastically different design goal than the other two units. In other words...if you are considering something as large as the SVS...you really shouldn't be considering those other two units imo. Instead, dual cht15s from VEL would be more of a sister to the SVS...at least in size and cost. When looking at woofage, in general, the larger you can accept into the room the more performance you'll get for your dollar.

    Tom V.
    SVS
     
  8. RISUG

    RISUG Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    May 3, 2003
    Messages:
    179
    Likes Received:
    0
    I have a pair of AR1 power towers. Each tower houses a sealed enclosed 15"500 watt RMS powered Bob Carver Sunfire subwoofer, their performance is anythingbut "compromised", try insanely massive and accurate LFE all the damn way down to a squeaky clean 18Hz. SV-who? Velo-wha?.[​IMG]
     
  9. Reginald Trent

    Reginald Trent Screenwriter

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2000
    Messages:
    1,313
    Likes Received:
    0
    Reese Agyepong, no offense but I have trouble believing those towers can produce the same QUALITY of bass as a dedicated Sub like SVS.

    BTW I could be somewhat biased since I own a SVS 16-46pci
     
  10. Jeff Gatie

    Jeff Gatie Lead Actor

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2002
    Messages:
    6,531
    Likes Received:
    15
    Reese,

    You may want to put a few bass sweeps through those woofers and measure with an SPL meter. You may be disappointed at just how many spl's of "sqeaky clean" bass is being put out at 18Hz. I'm not singling you out for criticism, I just remember dozens of threads from people with powered towers that do not come close to their carefully worded specs (i.e. clean output at 18Hz does not mean 115dB of clean output at 18Hz, there is a big difference). General concensus of the group is a powered tower cannot match a quality dedicated sub (i.e. SVS) for a variety of reasons - cancellation and positioning being one, price paid for an integral package rather than a dedicated sub is another, the absurd amounts of bang for the buck of a company like SVS is a third.
     
  11. RISUG

    RISUG Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    May 3, 2003
    Messages:
    179
    Likes Received:
    0
    Reginald Trent

    "BTW I could be somewhat biased since I own a SVS 16-46pci "

    -Exactly, and aren't we all?. No offense but you having trouble believing what the AR1's are capable of is not my problem, I refuse to become involved in one of those threads where people go back and fourth futilely and endlessly trying to convince the other that what they experienced was not in fact what they thought they experienced. I have absolutely nothing to prove, my only intent was to state my experience, however if you or anyone else needs proof then go find someone with a pair of AR1's.

    Jeff Gatie

    I can appreciate the points you've made, and I in fact agree with your summary within the realm of generalization; but as you know there are a bajillion variables that may or may not affect the performance of most audio visual equipment, these variables can work against or in favor of said product. Yes, power towers(in "general") are handcuffed where room placement is concerned, but how do you know that in "my" particular room this factor is not a weakness but a strength?. How do you know that the structure and properties of my room do not enhance the performance of the bass response?, you don't.

    Thank goodness "general concensus of the group" doesn't play any scientific role in how a particular speaker may perform in a particular environment.

    At the end of the day whether you want to admit it or not there are exceptions to most rules, and fortunately for me the AR1's at least in the room they are in are a prime example of that fact.
    [​IMG]
     
  12. RISUG

    RISUG Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    May 3, 2003
    Messages:
    179
    Likes Received:
    0
    ......I'm detecting impact tremors.......very, very, very, low bass....I think its...yes..yes I believe it is the countless footsteps of SVS disciples from forums all around
    making their way here to deliver upon me a sound and brutal
    beating for my insolent opinion....[​IMG]
     
  13. Ned

    Ned Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2000
    Messages:
    838
    Likes Received:
    0
    Having the subs in the mains is a compromise in itself. You can't benefit from corner loading (unless you like your mains jammed in the corner) and you can't experiment with location (much).
     
  14. Brian Bunge

    Brian Bunge Producer

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2000
    Messages:
    3,716
    Likes Received:
    0
    Reese,

    I don't own an SVS so I'm not biased towards them. I understand what you are saying regarding not feeling as if you are missing anything without a dedicated sub. But I have to ask, have you ever tried a dedicated sub in your system along with the AR1's? I'm just wondering as it is possible that you may be missing more LFE than you think you are. But, in the end, all that matters is that you are happy with the sound.
     
  15. Tom Vodhanel

    Tom Vodhanel Cinematographer

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 1998
    Messages:
    2,215
    Likes Received:
    8
    >>>......I'm detecting impact tremors.......very, very, very, low bass....I think its...yes..yes I believe it is the countless footsteps of SVS disciples from forums all around
    making their way here to deliver upon me a sound and brutal
    beating for my insolent opinion
     
  16. Jeff Gatie

    Jeff Gatie Lead Actor

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2002
    Messages:
    6,531
    Likes Received:
    15
    Reese,

    I do not know if your room is a weakness or a strength. I do not know how your AR's perform. That's why I expressed my points in a general manner. However, I did ask if you had measured your output at 18Hz with an SPL meter, which is not a generalization. A bajillion variables or not, if the SPL meter measures -30db at reference at 18Hz, then your speakers are not capable of reference or anywhere near it at 18Hz. The powered towers that can extend that low with usable output are few and far between and I would like to know if your's truly are capable of this, I might invest in a pair.

    P.S. I own an SVS, but I am not a disciple. I bought the product with good recommendations and it performed as desired. I am however a disciple of science and if you can't measure it (especially something like SPL's at freq response) it just is not there. Being the owner of a 25-31PCi (tuned to 22 Hz), I'll be the first to admit I cannot hit reference at 18Hz in my room, it is very diffcult to do. I know this because I measured it. Since I live in an apartment and listen at 15-20 dB below reference, this is no problem for me.
     
  17. RISUG

    RISUG Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    May 3, 2003
    Messages:
    179
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ned,
    True, I can't experiment with location, but at the level of quality the subs in the AR1's perform at I don't need to. As far as "benefiting" from corner loading if I desired
    that form of bass response I would have a sub/satellite system, and remember not everyone who has a separate sub places it in the corner because not everyone with a separate sub prefers that form of bass response.I believe in references but not absolutes. Not everything can be categorized, stereotyped, and easily referenced, if you fail to predict the unpredictable in a world full of endless possibilities you put yourself at the mercy of circumstances which though may have a solution will be unsurmountable to those unable to accept anything but what
    they believe to be absolute and irrefutable with any notion of an alternative being positively impossible.


    Brian....
    I'll have to assume you are not familiar with the AR1's, so I'll put it to you like this, the AR1's are in a room that is 18x18, each AR1 houses a sealed enclosed 15" 500 watt RMS Sunfire subwoofer capable of true and clean response down to 18Hz the tone controls on my receiver are set to flat (zero) the L&R channels are set to flat on the receiver, the volume for each of the two subs is set at -6 from reference
    this is one level from Minimum. I guess what I'm trying to
    say is that....if there is anything the AR1's can't be blamed for its not having enough bass....you'll have to trust me on this one.
     
  18. RISUG

    RISUG Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    May 3, 2003
    Messages:
    179
    Likes Received:
    0
    Tom,
    I'm not crying, I'm smiling. Also no offense to Tom Nousaine, but what he was able to do or not do with the HGS15 hinges in no way shape or form on how the AR1's sound in my room. See my reply to Ned. As for my comment of:

    "try insanely massive and accurate LFE all the damn way down to a squeaky clean 18Hz. SV-who? Velo-wha"

    I have the right to express my enthusiasm and excitement about the performance of the AR1's just like any Onix, or
    SVS owner; and I FIRMLY standby my personal interpretation of how they perform in my room and I'll say it again INSANELY MASSIVE AND ACCURATE LFE ALL THE DAMN WAY DOWN TO A SQUEAKY CLEAN 18Hz - whether you snobs out(you know who you are) there like it or not. This is not about power towers versus sub/satellite this is about what I prefer as opposed to what you or anyone else prefers. I prefer power towers - still love me? Oh and my SV-who? Velo-wha? jab was purely in jest hence the smiley face, but of course who am I kidding?, some people tie their self worth and genetic code into what they own and can be nothing but offended if any comment that exhibits anything less than gratuitous praise is spoken of their possession. I know this to be true because I was guilty of this in highschool
    in reference to videogame systems - Nintendo rules!![​IMG]
    Personally I hold SVS and Onix in the highest regard and believe and know that they turn out magnificent product, needless to say if I wasn't such a power tower nerd I would surely have an Onix/SVS system.[​IMG]

    Jeff,
    If I came off as condescending, then I apologize, afterall few things get under my skin more than pompous, arrogant, elitist cumwads who think they know what I should like and why what I like is inferior to anything they may like. Anyway to answer your question which I purposely didn't address the first time because I felt like it was a "you can't possibly know what your're talking about so go play outside" statement. The answer is yes - I and those who know far, far more than I do measured the output with an spl meter; and yes it did measure down to 18-17Hz in the room it is currently in, and to me it "felt" squeaky clean.
     
  19. Jeff Gatie

    Jeff Gatie Lead Actor

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2002
    Messages:
    6,531
    Likes Received:
    15
    Let it be said that on June 6th 2003 the phrase "pompous, arrogant, elitist cumwads" was used for what has to be the first time on a board that prides itself on civility and decorum. My heart is all aflutter!!

    Also, my question was not that an SPL meter "measured" at 18Hz, but what value it measured at reference level - big difference. Many subs have measurable output at 18Hz, not many played at reference can achieve the same output at 18Hz that they have at the 30-50 Hz range of the spectrum.

    I am no elitist, nor am I deriving delusions of perfection from my possession. I already stated that my SVS cannot possibly hit reference at 18Hz in my room. I said that is fine with me, cause it fits my needs. I was just asking about claims that seem to counter everything I know about subs and output coupled with everything very knowledgeble people have posted on this board. You must admit, the skeptic can find much fertile ground in statements like "INSANELY MASSIVE AND ACCURATE LFE ALL THE DAMN WAY DOWN TO A SQUEAKY CLEAN 18Hz - whether you snobs out(you know who you are) there like it or not". Seems like thou doth protest too much, but who am I to judge.

    Sheesh . . .(Bob, Bob, is that you?)
     
  20. MichaelJL

    MichaelJL Auditioning

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2003
    Messages:
    5
    Likes Received:
    0
    I think the essence of my thread has taken a bad tangent.

    Thanks all for your input. I think the essence of the masses has spoken that SVS is indeed better bang/buck than Velodyne and Sunfire.

    I guess I just need to decide which SVS now.
     

Share This Page