sub decision, velodyne vs. svs, yet again!

Discussion in 'Speakers & Subwoofers' started by Robert Cowan, May 11, 2004.

  1. Robert Cowan

    Robert Cowan Supporting Actor

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    ok guys. i dont think i have ever posted a question in here, but here it goes.

    im going to be replacing my sub in summer, and im looking around ahead of time. i am a dealer, and i sell velodyne. i have a deftech supercube reference. on the used market, it fetches around $1,100. so, i have at least that much in "free money". i get velodyne for 65% off retail.

    since i am a dealer, i was planning on getting something now, keeping it for a year (policy), and selling it at a profit and moving on to the next best thing. i WAS thinking of going with SVS (getting a couple of them), but i have though, why wait?

    i want to stay around $1,500 or so. i am currently looking at either a Velodyne DD-18, or a pair of the new HGS-15x's. both are servo controlled, 1% claimed (and tested) distortion and would be a nice sub for just about anyone.

    for SVS, i guess my options are a PC Ultra (i could do a passive and get a huge amp too), or maybe a pair of PC+'s. i like dual subs because each sub has to work half as hard. but am open. i could also do the PB2+.

    size isnt an issue, weight isnt an issue, placement isnt an issue, and i have a house, so as loud as i can go, i will. i do have to keep in mind, that if i get a pair of SVS's, i wont be able to upgrade really. in a year, the velodyne's could be sold for twice what i paid, and i can once again upgrade for free.

    SO, question of the day, would any SVS offering in that price range be significantly better than a DD-18 or a pair of HGS-15x's?
     
  2. Jason Brent

    Jason Brent Second Unit

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    Man, it must suck to be you[​IMG]

    Seriously though, if you can get the DD18 or a pair of DD15's for $1500, I think I'd have to try that/those bad boy's out. That slick auto EQ looks pretty cool.

    Plus if your numbers are correct, it would make more financial sense to buy the Velo. But I know that your main concern is sound.

    Just offering my opinion on what I'd do.....
     
  3. Robert Cowan

    Robert Cowan Supporting Actor

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    that is the way im leaning, but ultimately, you are right, i want the best sound.

    the EQ stuff is very very nice. ive played around with it quite a bit at work. it doesnt really help as much as you would think, but it can eliminate some peaks and bloom in the sound. but, its a very expensive feature. the HGS series is basically the DD minus the eq feature, and its almost twice as much! so, for that reason, i would probably just do the dual 15's.

    another thing i didnt mention is i have around $200 worth of "bonus points" to spend with velodyne. so, for the dual 15's, i would really only be shelling out $100. be the nicest $100 sub you could buy [​IMG]

    but if anyone thinks i should really give the SVS a go, im up for it.
     
  4. Parker Clack

    Parker Clack Schizophrenic Man
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    Robert:

    For the price you can't go wrong with the Velodyne subs. You could always sell them later at a profit and get the SV Subs at a later date.

    If you haven't heard the SV line of subwoofers I would suggest that you try out their 30 day no hassle return policy and try out the sub(s) in your own home.

    Parker
     
  5. Robb Roy

    Robb Roy Supporting Actor

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    Robert,

    As a dealer and regular contributor to this forum, you are someone whose opinion of an SVS I'd like to hear. That said, however, it would seem to make little sense for you to get one when you can get such a great deal on Velodyne. I personally think Velodyne's higher-end models are fantastic, but overpriced (but not for you).

    Since you will probably only keep your sub about a year, I'd go with the DD-18. Not because it's the better choice over the two HGS-15s, but because you have an opportunity to affordably become extremely familiar with their flagship (OK, excluding the 1812) product, and I, for one, would have a hard time passing that up. Some time after that perhaps you'll have an opportunity to get very familiar with a PB2-Ultra, or even the B4+, or whatever is one of the high end SVS subs at that time.

    -Robb
     
  6. Robert Cowan

    Robert Cowan Supporting Actor

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    i would like to hear an SVS as well, but im not about to do a 30-day trail if im not going to get anything. although, it would be nice to give one a shot!

    so, i think the velodyne might be the way to go. i dont think im gonna do an SVS unless i can get a PB2 or a PB4.

    the question is whether i get a pair of HGS15's, or a single DD-18. sigh.
     
  7. MikeNg

    MikeNg Second Unit

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    Life is good when that's the question you ponder!

    IMO, the answer depends on what type of listening you do. You can go a little deeper with the DD, I'd be really surprised if you could go louder than dual HGS's. Are you into organ music or do a ton of movie listening? Want to get a nice veneer on the box? Is having the auto-EQ a deal-breaker for you? Get the DD.

    Listening to mostly music, don't care much about the finish, and plan to unload the subs after a year for sure? Get the dual HGS's. I think you'll profit more from turning around two HGS's than a single DD, but I could be wrong.

    Hey! How 'bout quad HGS10's? [​IMG]
     
  8. Stephen_Ponte

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    A tough decision you have, Robert.

    I've got a bit of experience with most of the SVS models, as well as the Velodyne models.

    In terms of output, in any scenerio, the SVS will take the cake. SVS's drivers have roughly 1/3 more usable excursion, as well as the added benefit of large enclosures (efficiency), more surface area, and the fact that they are all bass reflex enclosures.

    If going for a single DD18, say compared to dual 16-46PC+ drivers: You'll have roughly 4-5dB more output from the dual SVS's, than the single DD18.

    If going for dual HGSx 15"s, it's a little closer. With dual 16-46PC+ drivers, the SVS's will only edge out the Velodyne by about 1-2dB. Neither has an extensive DSP package as the DD series - so the choice is difficult.

    Step up to the PB2+, or PB2ISD, and the SVS boat pulls ahead by a great margin, concerning output.

    Many different choices you have - in terms of output, any dual SVS configuration will most likely best any Velodyne set-up. But the Velodyne DD is VERY attractive because of the DSP functions.

    The most appealing thing about the Velodyne DD series, is the active filtering available. The 'Auto EQ' is a great feature - but more notably, 8 fully variable parametric filters, and up to 4th order HP/LP filters. User adjustable too. [​IMG]

    Now, there always is the possibility of picking up an outboard DSP (Behringer DCX2496, Rane RPM26z, etc) - and mating that with any of the choices you have, and have the ability to achieve the same kind of filtering capability as the Velodyne DD series. This assumes that you can measure Frequency Response of the system, with at least 1/12 octave resolution (which most of us do not have capability).

    In terms of distortion, you won't hear any distortion from either any Velodyne or SVS. The point to where distortion would be audible, is probably at the same point your eardrums implode.


    I say it comes down to this:

    Do you want more output (SVS)?
    Or do you want more features, and a better frequency response (Velodyne only DD series)?

    Of course, as Parker said - the 30 day no hassle trial period w/SVS certainly will give you some real insight into the differences between the two options.



    Just a thought.



    -SDP
     
  9. SVS-Ron

    SVS-Ron Screenwriter

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    Just one word of correction, the at-home trial period with SVS is 45 days, not 30.

    Ron
     
  10. Robert Cowan

    Robert Cowan Supporting Actor

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    Mike,

    as far as listening goes, im close to 50/50, however, i dont care much about HT. my system's HT performance is stupid-good becuase of how good it performs in 2-channel really. my system works best as a stereo. i want music to sound great. if that happesn, im sure it will help out in HT as well. if i want the booms and stuff for HT, i can just turn it up.

    the finish is important, but its only secondary. if it was saftey orange, but the greatest sub, i would have no problem [​IMG] i already have 4 magnepans in this room, 2 amps stands, and my main rack. there is NO waf here. (good thing i dont have a wife).

    and im not a HUGE fan of velodyne's finishes. the gloss is nice, but tacky for my house. i would do the cherry, which is ok IMO.

    as far as turn-around profit, the DD-18 would actually be better. it retails for $5k, and can sell for about $3500. the two HGS's retail for $2500 each, but only sell for around $1,500 each. BUT, cost-wise, i would have to shell out about $500 more, so it comes out in the end, but i wouldnt have to pay as much up front with the dual HGSs.

    i thought about doing 4 HGS10's. but they are like $500 each, so thats around $2k, out of my budget. i actually dont spend money on my system, i just do the year upgrade thing. i havent spent more than $200 on any item in my system in a few years. i am a poor college student trying to pay my way through school.

    stephen,

    i thought i had ruled out SVS, but damn you! hehe. output isnt ultimate for me, becuase any combination will be more than enough for my room. its 3 exterior walls. the back of the room is completely open to the rest of the house. not to mention, its a 2-story vault thats open with the upstairs level. so, its like a HUGE enclosure. i put the sub on the far wall, and i get INSANE room gain without boom (remember, all exterior walls [​IMG] )

    so if we are talking a few dB's, thats fine. i can live without that. so, it comes down to quality. ive heard a lot about svs, but not too much regarding pure "this is the best bass ive heard". its typically "this is more than ive ever heard". most of that can be attributed to the fact most people havent heard really high output subs, and that blows them away a little more than clarity.

    the eq'ing is nice, but its not a HUGE deal for me. if this was going to be my last sub, maybe i would consider that a huge feature, but this will just be to last me a year. and if the two HGS's will have more output, and comparable output to a pair of SVS's, then maybe that is the choice.

    after a year, i will be able to get three PB2+'s. that could be cool [​IMG]

    let me know if anyone else has any ideas or input! im getting excited.
     
  11. ScottCHI

    ScottCHI Screenwriter

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    do you own that place, robert?

    :wink:
     
  12. Robert Cowan

    Robert Cowan Supporting Actor

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    hah, actually, its my roommate's house. he owns it. im still in college, so i dont want to be tied down to a place if i have to move for a job or whatever.
     
  13. MikeNg

    MikeNg Second Unit

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    Hey Robert...

    Is your roommate into music gear? I smell a way to make your rent dollar go further![​IMG]
     
  14. Robert Cowan

    Robert Cowan Supporting Actor

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    no, not at all.

    i wont explain my roommate, but the only way to lower rent would be to move out. [​IMG] he is kinda into the stuff, but has a stereo and wouldnt upgrade. he's an aerospace engineer, so he has money, but he spends it on other things.

    BUT, he is awesome because he doesnt care how loud i play it, and at what hour. i have literally watched a loud action movie (matrix, saving private ryan, etc...) at 1am at FULL tilt with him sleeping upstairs. he will sleep right through it. i can even ask him the next morning if he knew i was watching a movie, and he will have no idea [​IMG]
     
  15. ScottCHI

    ScottCHI Screenwriter

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    i meant the audio dealership!
     
  16. Robert Cowan

    Robert Cowan Supporting Actor

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    OH, no. its not mine. i just work there, selling stuff.
     

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