Star Trek in HD - with revised special effects? (2 Viewers)

[Will_B]

Regarding the above screen cap from the DS9 episode when they go back in time, was this CGI or did they film old models? Update: I've just read that they built new models for that DS9 episode. So now I am more skeptical. Can today's CGI recreate the look of the models? Of course it can, but, will it?

 

[Dave Mack]

some music...
Oy, now music too? Isn't it interesting how the only ST series where you can even REMEMBER any of the music within the shows themselves as opposed to the title themes was TOS. Think about it. The theme where Spock fought Kirk in Amok time was memorable enough that it was used in The cable guy.
Any time I watch DS9 for example I hear this meandeing melody-less pointless incidental music in the background that I can't remember to save the life of me and I am a musician!

 

[Nelson Au]

Will-

Thanks for your follow-up. I see your point, you're more referring to the quality of the film materials itself, scratches and changes in grain texture. I have to respectfully disagree that it's a distraction, but I do see what you refer to. I think I've seen Star Trek so many times, it's just part of the experience and I'm not bothered by it. You idea that they clean up the shots with new shots that recreate the old ones are a reasonable approach. Some have dissagreed and I see their point too.

I am not opposed if Paramount did the CGI and did a blog as you described the Dr. Who group did. I just hope HD version of the originals are part of the package as many have already said.The danger here is Paramount is doing this in-house, so hopefully they hire good quality people to do the work. It can be exciting to see, but also has the danger of overshadowing the drama with flashy effects. I believe that some who are advocating this have said that it would be hands off for the live action material.That should be the case, don't need to see a new transporter effect.

The DS9 shot you posted from Trials and Tribulations are filmed with a recreation of the original models by Greg Jein. The Enterprise is about 3 or 4 feet long. It's an excellent reproduction, down to the small graphics and paint job.

I heard that rumour about music too. I hope that one is wrong. Don't forget the Wonder Years that spoofed Spock's Brain right down to the music too!

 

[Michael Rogers]

There are Star Trek fans, like me, that because of seeing the episodes throughout the years practically know them by heart.

That's why, at least for me, there's a bit of excitement at having an alternate version. It will be fun to compare what they did compared to what was done.

But if the alternate becomes a replacement, I will not be happy. I would've been happy about the 5.1 remixes on the episodes had they not made it the only choice.

I'm an omniverous purist who first and foremost wants movies and shows in thier original form. Once that is taken care of and the choice remains available, I am ambiable to whatever modifications the owners of the material wants to make and if it intrigues me, I will check it out.

But the original version has to be readily available and in print as a part of or alongside the modified versions for me to be happy.

Today's home video technology does not limit you to one version so the desire to tinker is there and I say tinker away as long as you untilize that technology to also recreate the original version.

 

[Nick Martin]

on the TOS DVDs the 5.1 is the only option?

Why would they do that but on the DS9 DVDs you get both?

Strange.

 

[Jonny P]

When I was a kid in the late 70s and early 80s, I loved the original Trek.

Not because it was "cutting edge," but because it was an entertaining piece of science fiction.

I mean, there was no doubt that the FX in "ST:The Motion Picture" and "ST: The Wrath of Khan" were a world better than the show from the 60s. The FX also paled in comparison to the "Star Wars" franchise at that time.

That didn't matter. It was a cheesy show made on a budget. The focus wasn't on effects, but rather the stories themselves. That's what fans remember and love about the show.

Just because it is "old" doesn't mean that a new generation won't like it "as is."

What's next? Are we going to start adding new guitar riffs and synthesizers to original Beatles recordings?

 

[PeterTHX]

DS9 had a stereo-surround master to work with.
Music: the composers complained about the "sonic wallpaper" approach that Berman wanted....my favorite series Trek composer was fired for largely ignoring that rule (my favorite overall Trek composer was Jerry Goldsmith).

You could argue that the DVD versions of TOS represent how they were meant to be seen...the series was never meant to be broadcast in HD (stains on costumes, makeup seams, etc). People have complained how grainy some of the new HD discs are. It's entirely possible the VFX of the old series simply looks TERRIBLE in HD. It doesn't look so hot in NTSC, what makes you folks think its acceptable in 1080p?

I grew up with Trek, the episode "The Doomsday Machine" (one of my favorites) originally aired the day after I was born. Bring on the changes, please.

 

[Joel Fontenot]

It was actually about 5'-7" long - scaled exactly half of the original 11'-2" filming model. Although it was highly detailed, it still had the outer bottom edge of the saucer profile wrong. It more closely resembled the now long-gone 3 foot model and the AMT model kit in shape with a flat edge.

BTW, the Space Station K7 model used in the episode was also re-created by Jein.

 

[Jason_V]

TMP worked, depending on your view, because the material was from a higher budget and 10 years newer...NOT because the CGI stuff added anything to the story. Plus, it had the direct supervision of the people who were originally involved in the movie's creation: Robert Wise was most definately involved.

That's the thing, Will, you can't recreate a look of any time period down to every detail. DS9's "Trials and Tribble-ations" looked good, I'll admit. Even ENT's "In a Mirror, Darkly" was spiffy. But there are noticeable differences between a model and CGI. You can't recreate everything exactly. I remember, watching TOS as a kid in reruns, the nacelles fading off behind the ship...the laughable effect used for whatever-his-name-is in "And the Children Shall Lead"...the suspense of not seeing a great many ship shots...

The show--all of it--are products of the time. Everything is a product of its time. There is no good reason for this...besides the money aspect. And I'm not convinced of that anymore. Unless they do a shoddy rush job, this is going to cost some nice coin. I don't think they'd ever make it back.

It just scares me for the future. What's going to be next? This is, basically, rewriting history.

 

[Ric Easton]

Would that have been Ron Jones? His score for Best of Both Worlds was probably the last memorable Trek episode theme. Um, with the possible exception of The Inner Light. Funny, those are my favorite two TNG episodes!

Don't mess with the music!

 

[Tony J Case]

I weep for the youth of today. . . .

 

[Jay Pennington]

That quote is from someone else's post, not mine.

 

[Radioman970]

Haven't read the whole thread yet...

Anyway, as long as I can have my unmolested versions, no prob. All I need is Season 1 at this point. So...happy times ahead with this freaky new idea!! If they can closely preserve what the original looked like it might be fun. That demo from page one reminds me of watching the movies in a Trek video game.

 

[jim.vaccaro]

That's probably the dumbest thing posted in this thread so far. You get a Gold Star!

No one here is arguing against presenting the original film elements in the highest quality home video format possible. That would be evident to anyone who's paid the slightest bit of attention to this thread.

Your assignment: go back and actually read the thread. You can ask an adult for help if you have a problem understanding what the actual debate is.

 

[JoSAN]

.

 

[Michael Rogers]

I've seen Trek projected in 35mm and it looked fine. Poc marks and all. It could do fine just cleaned up and transferred to 1080p

 

[Michael Rogers]

I cannot understand this mode of thinking as well. When I was younger I went nuts over Universal Monster movies made decades before I was born. The Adventures of Superman was also before my time. From the time I was young I was facinated with movies and TV made before my time.

You cannot appreciate pop culture fully if you cut it off at only the last 10-20 years.

 

[Dave Mack]

The Ds9 theme is great. It's all the meandery music in the shows themselves that does nothing. I can actually hum most of the TOS melodies, like the vulcan theme done on electric guitar, the Finnegan music, the love type theme when Kirk sees Ruth also from Shore Leave, the music at the end of doomsday when they are trying to beam Kirk aboard. If they replace all that with more "modern" minimal melody Ds9-type stuff it will be a travesty.

 

[Nick Martin]

Ok. Glad to have cleared that up.

The same composers did Voyager as well, and most of them came from TNG, so DS9 is not the only show with that type of music.
I didn't watch Enterprise, so I have no idea what the music sounded like.

 

[Lou Sytsma]

I have made my position clear. I grew up with this series during its initial network run.

The hyperbole and condescending remarks in this thread are extremely disappointing.