Star Trek DS9 on Blu-Ray -- Remain Ever Hopeful Thread (1 Viewer)

[The Obsolete Man]

Penny wise, pound foolish.

Of course, that's most every major corporation these days.

 

[BobO'Link]

Interesting read but it didn't say anything new. We've known for years the reason those two programs are likely not going to receive BR/HD treatment. The hope has always been CBS would do it anyway to protect the future viability/use for the programs. Again, we've known that's unlikely due to the expense which would be involved. What I was expecting to read, but didn't, was whether or not the restoration of TNG paid off. The implication is that it really didn't but they expect it to eventually recoup those expenses from streaming revenues. Something they have no faith happening with DS9 and Voyager restorations. As much as I like those two programs, even over TNG (which many of you know I rank dead last in my list of Star Trek programs) I have to agree. IIRC, DS9 received reasonable, although not as good as expected, ratings while Voyager consistently under performed during the original airings, both of which give them little cause to attempt HD restoration.

Here's a interesting article on ratings and Star Trek:
https://www.trektoday.com/articles/ratings_history.shtml

 

[jcroy]

What I was expecting to read, but didn't, was whether or not the restoration of TNG paid off.

CBS is not legally required to disclose information at this level of granularity/detail.

The only way we'll know for sure, is if Les Moonves says anything about it officially.

 

[Nelson Au]

That was a good read. I think it's helpful for fans who are not regulars to forums such as this so there is a clear explanation on the process.

Interesting to read that TNG cost 12M to convert to high def. it was clear the sales figures were below expectations. Hopefully it's made up from licensing the new remastered episodes. Seems like if you don't have them yet, you should pick up the blu rays if they ever go out of print. I'm glad CBS made the investment. It might take an uber fan with the resources to fund a DS9 and Voyager remaster if CBS was willing.

 

[Jonathan Perregaux]

Well, at least we have four Star Trek series on Blu-ray. Maybe a fifth if Discovery goes Blu.

Art and commerce really are strange bed-fellows.

 

[Joseph Bolus]

That was a good read. I think it's helpful for fans who are not regulars to forums such as this so there is a clear explanation on the process.

Interesting to read that TNG cost 12M to convert to high def. it was clear the sales figures were below expectations. Hopefully it's made up from licensing the new remastered episodes. Seems like if you don't have them yet, you should pick up the blu rays if they ever go out of print. I'm glad CBS made the investment. It might take an uber fan with the resources to fund a DS9 and Voyager remaster if CBS was willing.

Well I, for one, am extremely happy we at least got TNG on Blu-ray. The DVDs were soft to the extreme and really not viewable on a projection system. The DS9 DVDs are slightly better; and "Voyager" is at least as good as the medium will allow.

I still think that the technology is getting close to the point where DS9 and VOY can be effectively computer upscaled enough to provide a "near" Hi Def experience someday.

 

[Sam Favate]

This week's earnings report from Sony didn't help matters. For those who haven't read about it, Sony reported that DVD sales fell more than expected. There's actually some decent news in there about sales of blu-rays and Ultra HDs, but the media's main takeaway seems to be that streaming has killed physical media, the end. (Of course, we know that's not true, but if you're an exec at CBS and someone says "Hey, let's remaster these last 2 Star Trek shows," you're going to throw Sony's earnings report at them and throw them out of the office.)

 

[Carabimero]

There's always hope they will get remastered for prestige, if not for disc release.

 

[BobO'Link]

Well I, for one, am extremely happy we at least got TNG on Blu-ray. The DVDs were soft to the extreme and really not viewable on a projection system. The DS9 DVDs are slightly better; and "Voyager" is at least as good as the medium will allow.

I was amazed at the improvement in quality on the TNG Blu-rays. I'd just finished picking up "bargain" price (~$15/season) DVDs of the series thinking that'd be "good enough" for my purposes when another site pointed to the complete series on region free BR from Amazon UK for ~$66 US. The price was so good I looked up some comparisons of the DVD and BR sets. WOW! Even on streaming the difference was noticeable. So, in spite of not having finished watching my DVD set, I ordered the series on BR. I must say that the improvement in quality, both audio and video, is absolutely worth the purchase. That I was able to get the entire series in more shelf friendly packaging for less than the DVDs I'd just finished purchasing was just icing on the cake. I'd been watching episodes of DS9 in between episodes of TNG on DVD and was a bit surprised at how bad TNG looked on DVD.

I may give my DVD set to my grandson as he watched part of S7 with me after I got the BR set and gained a new respect for the Star Trek universe. While watching he said "I finally see why you like these shows so much!" Before that he'd never watched more than half a episode of any Trek series. He's now open to more Star Trek so I plan to get him started on DS9 next. I think he'll really like it and it's about time I watched it again. Should CBS ever decide it's worth remastering DS9 for HD release I'll gladly get in line for a copy.

 

[Carabimero]

may give my DVD set to my grandson as he watched part of S7 with me after I got the BR set and gained a new respect for the Star Trek universe.

I tried to give my TNG DVDs to two friends and both looked at me like I was trying to pawn small pox on them. "Dude," they said. "I have Netflix."

 

[The Obsolete Man]

I tried to give my TNG DVDs to two friends and both looked at me like I was trying to pawn small pox on them. "Dude," they said. "I have Netflix."

And when the episodes are eventually locked behind the CBS All Access paywall, will they have that in addition to Netflix?

 

[Josh Steinberg]

There's always hope they will get remastered for prestige, if not for disc release.

That's the thing, if they're remastered, I agree, it won't be for disc. It could very well be for streaming - I could easily see a day where Netflix and all of the other major services simply stop carrying content that's in standard definition. They'll do customer surveys or studies and come to the conclusion that the average customer simply prefers material in HD and will avoid material in SD, regardless of context (i.e. was that material created in SD in the first place?), and that'll be that. Why should Netflix pay CBS/Paramount a license fee for content that customers aren't watching? That's what it'll come down to. Because most of us in this forum have a longer connection to Trek beyond the reboot era, we remember these being on the first time around, and can accept that they were made in the SD format. But in the future, people who are coming new to Trek might either avoid the shows that are in SD on principle, or might even think, "Well, they put the effort into putting TOS and TNG in HD, if these other shows are only in SD, they must not be very good and aren't worth my time."

At the least, they could scan the live action footage in HD, and upscale the effects footage from the SD masters, and I'd live with that. That's what Fox did for the nine seasons of the original run of the X-Files, and I think the Blu-ray releases were an afterthought; this seemed primarily to be done for streaming and for the sake of keeping the show viable for years to come. Shows that have HD masters will be considered viable and continue to be made available in a variety of formats ranging from network and cable syndication to streaming and paid downloads, while shows without HD masters will end up getting phased out. It's just the nature of the beast. At some point, CBS will have to decide, "Is DS9 or Voyager worth $10 million to do the absolute bare minimum to bring it to HD, not to make back all at once, but just for prestige, posterity and potential future deals? Or are we done with these shows and forever slamming the door on potential revenue from them?"

And when the episodes are eventually locked behind the CBS All Access paywall, will they have that in addition to Netflix?

I suspect that the license fee that Netflix and Amazon Prime pay far exceeds whatever CBS All Access makes on those titles, and frankly, I'm not sure that that's going to change. To me, it seems more likely that CBS All Access won't exist in a couple years. I don't think they can produce enough original content fast enough to make it worthwhile to subscribe just for that. And everything they have streaming that isn't an original CBS All Access program is available at least one other way if not more, whether that be DVD, Blu-ray, free streaming, paid subscription streaming, etc. I recently got an email or saw a web ad (forgot which, sorry) where they were using all of the Trek shows to try to encourage me to join CBS All Access. But I've got all of the commercially released BDs and/or DVDs for the shows I want to own, and for the shows I don't care to own, they're available on at least two different services I have subscriptions to. I don't think CBS All Access will be able to pull the plug on all of the other places there content is in an effective enough way to make everyone who values that content subscribe to CBS for it. CBS could pull all of the Trek stuff off of all of the other services, but they can't take my discs away, and I'm not going to subscribe to CBS All Access to watch what I already own.

I think there are times in life when you, as a consumer, see a new product or service and think, "Wow, I had never thought of this before, but now that I know it exists, I can't imagine my life without it." Unfortunately, CBS All Access isn't one of those products, and I don't think it's sustainable in its current form.

 

[Carabimero]

I could easily see a day where Netflix and all of the other major services simply stop carrying content that's in standard definition.

Yes, this is the primary reason LOST IN SPACE, for example, got the HD treatment, so it wouldn't disappear into the dustbin of TV history.

 

[Adam Lenhardt]

I can understand CBS's concerns with this. But -- much like the Second Avenue Subway -- the longer you delay the project, the more expensive it's eventually going to be if you ever do pull the trigger. The film elements are only going to deteriorate as time goes on. More and more of the CG assets that can be re-rendered relatively cost effectively in HD now are going to be lost to drive failure and "shit happens", and the software tools that can utilize them will be more and more obsolete. Even if CBS didn't break even on the restoration effort via Blu-Ray sales alone, they now have TNG as a high-definition asset for the foreseeable future. That greatly increases TNG's value for pretty much all future revenue streams.

To me, it seems more likely that CBS All Access won't exist in a couple years. I don't think they can produce enough original content fast enough to make it worthwhile to subscribe just for that.

I agree. I think what we're seeing now is what you often see when a new market segment opens up: a ton of players trying to get a foothold. But over time, I'd bet we'll what we've seen in other media market segments as they've matured: significant consolidation.

The only way CBS All Access remains viable long term is if streaming options start getting bundled like cable packages do. If you pay, say, $100 a month to get Neflix, Amazon Prime, Hulu, CBS All Access, HBO Now, Showtime Anytime and a handful of others on one bill, then I could see it maintaining its niche.

 

[Carabimero]

I have no plans to get CBS All Access. I'll see DISCOVERY, but not that way.

 

[Harry-N]

I wish all of us had other options.

It feels like they're trying their darndest to keep STAR TREK away from fans.

 

[Carabimero]

If CBS/P put as much thought and energy into understanding what Star Trek was about as they do into exploiting Star Trek and its fans, DISCOVERY might be something worthy of my subscription dollars. People like to say ST fans have had it nice in terms of releases--and they have--but that's because ST fans have spoken with their pocket books. Speaking for myself, I've invested thousands upon thousands of hard-earned dollars in ST disc-based media. Have I had it nice? Yes. But I have paid dearly for the privilege.

 

[AndyMcKinney]

I can understand CBS's concerns with this. But -- much like the Second Avenue Subway -- the longer you delay the project, the more expensive it's eventually going to be if you ever do pull the trigger. The film elements are only going to deteriorate as time goes on. More and more of the CG assets that can be re-rendered relatively cost effectively in HD

I think that (according to the article) if part of the problem. Besides being less popular than TNG the later two shows used more video FX and CGI, and I think the artlcle said all the work was done in SD, so there's no "re-rendering" if that's the case. It would all have to be re-created.

At least with TNG, some of the SFX (ship shots, etc) were still done on film with models. The model work was supplemented by video FX (that had to be recreated), but apparently, none (or almost none) of the effects work on DS9/VOY was on film...it was all on NTSC video (or created at NTSC resolutions).

So, even more time and expense than TNG, with less likelyhood of breaking even. Unfortunately, it's a no-brainer.

 

[Carabimero]

Another downside about TNG-R. It wasn't just expensive. It was a real drain on the entire studio because the project ended up being much more of an interdepartmental affair than anyone ever imagined. It was very disruptive for years. DS9 and VOY figure to be even worse, in that regard.

Plus, at the end of TNG-R, the team was well-oiled and up to speed. If further HD ST TV work was going to happen, it would have commenced almost immediately. When it didn't, the ship sailed.

 

[Osato]

Along with many of you I would love to have voyager and ds9 on blu ray.

With the state of home video I don't believe it will ever happen.

I'm going to start watching ds9 soon.
I watched a season 3 episode of tng yesterday as well.