Questions about the ALIEN score/sound mix (1 Viewer)

[Kevin EK]

I held onto my original 1999 Alien DVD even after getting the Quadrilogy specifically because of the three audio tracks that don't show up anywhere else.

If I ever wanted to do a term paper or the like on ALIEN, having two separate Ridley Scott commentaries, recorded some 4 years apart from each other, would be a good place to start.

Hearing the production audio is interesting to me, and can also reveal dialogue changes that were made in post. (Such as the revelation of Ash)

And I really just liked having the complete score on there as an option.


Occasionally, I get caught by the double dips, and this was one example. Another would be Ferris Bueller where the first release has the John Hughes commentary, but the second release has all the other extras. Or All That Jazz where the first release has the Roy Scheider commentary, but the second release has a different commentary and a host of other extras. Or Apocalypse Now where I have to hang on to the original release because it has the footage of the destruction of the Kurtz compound with Coppola's commentary and no other version has that.

Sassafrassin', russelkriggin', fuffaluffin....

 

[Kevin EK]

The first episode of AMAZING STORIES ("Ghost Train") was scored by John Williams, with a cue that echoes the main title theme for the series. Williams also scored the only other episode that Spielberg directed, "The Mission". Both of those scores are available on the Intrada collection, but the Elfman "Family Dog" score is not.

Personally, I'd be interested to see Intrada do maybe a one-disc collection of the cues for the TWILIGHT ZONE series from the 1980s that was going at the same time. (And I remember seeing something about this a long time ago, so it's probably available and my brain is blocked on where I saw it...)

 

[John H Ross]

It's since been revealed that the isolated score presented on that DVD still isn't exactly what Goldsmith intended, specifically the sequencing of the cues on the planet surface.

The ONLY place to hear the complete score, in the correct sequence, is on the new Intrada CD.

 

[Nick Martin]

That CD flew off Intrada's shelf so fast they're apparently struggling to keep up with the pre-orders, and the discs are being stamped out as fast as they can.

Call it an all-around success for them.

 

[John H Ross]

Indeed!

 

[oscar_merkx]

True indeed.

Everytime there is a new Ridley Scott re release of his output, there is a renewed interest among several generations of movie goers.

Absolutely fantastic

 

[John H Ross]

Ummm I think you'll find the success of this CD has more to do with Jerry Goldsmith than it does with Ridley Scott!!

 

[oscar_merkx]

ok why not credit both of them

 

[John H Ross]

Because it would be grossly inaccurate, and it would detract from the popularity this score has had for almost 30 years DESPITE Ridley Scott and his butchery of it.

 

[oscar_merkx]

Are you saying that Goldsmith deserves the full credit for the score ?

 

[John H Ross]

Well he wrote it, OF COURSE he deserves full credit!!

 

[Lord Dalek]

You mean this? http://www.amazon.com/Twilight-Zone-...644072&sr=1-10

 

[Nick Martin]

Exactly. I find it a bit odd that someone thinks a director should share the credit behind a film score's success, but every time someone complains about the score in any movie, doesn't matter what the movie is or who wrote the music, the composer and ONLY the composer gets 100% of the blame and criticism when the director has final say on how loud the music is in the final mix, how much music there is, and if they want to chop that music up or replace it. The composer has no say whatsoever.

Both Ridley Scott and James Cameron butchered their respective Alien film scores, and both scores won critical acclaim and were released on album in complete form, allowing us to hear it as intended before the music was put into a blender and ground up. Sure, the edits do work in the films to a degree, but they were totally unnecessary.

 

[Kevin EK]

Dalek, that was the one. Thank you. Of course, listening to the samples shows that the music certainly wasn't at the same level as that of Amazing Stories.

But I still liked the revisionist Main Title - it's got a nice edge to it.

Between the 80's TZ and Amazing Stories, I always felt that TZ had the edge when it came to writing and basic storytelling, and that Amazing Stories had the edge when it came to directing and production value (including the scores). And I still think that holds when you look at the respective show DVDs today.

 

[Kevin EK]

Getting back to ALIEN, I have felt that the use of cues from other Goldsmith scores always stood out as the "Freud" material was different in tone. On the other hand, I didn't mind the subsitution of the Hansen "Romantic" piece to go over the end credits.

 

[John H Ross]

The Hansen piece does work fairly well but with a little bit of care and attention Goldsmith could have been guided to write something more "romantic" if that's what Scott wanted. Although I do believe that Goldsmith's own original End Title was superior.

The biggest problem with this project is that Ridley Scott's ability to communicate with Goldsmith over what he wanted was ZERO. In fact he appeared to turn the whole thing over to editor Terry Rawlings who IMHO is a complete asshole when it comes to music appreciation - and he comes across as such in the Quadrilogy documentary. It was Rawlings who thought "Freud" was a better fit than what Goldsmith actually wrote. He was utterly wrong and I don't think Goldsmith ever forgave either him or Scott.

Ironically the only time Goldsmith did work with Ridley Scott again was Legend. He delivered another breathtaking score and once again his efforts were jettisoned (for the US release of the picture) in favour of a mostly bullshit job by Tangerine Dream. Needless to say Goldsmith never really had much to say about Scott from then on that was positive.

 

[Lord Dalek]

Well the Legend thing had nothing to do with Ridley (in fact, Scott allegedly fought to keep it in), that was all Sid Sheinberg's fault.

Happily the original score is 100% intact on the directors cut and we have it on cd to boot.

 

[Kevin EK]

Ridley Scott admits on the very cool Legend DVD from 5 years back that he went along with the replacement of Goldsmith's score, but regretted it afterwards.

 

[John H Ross]

That's right.

Goldsmith fell out with Ridley Scott and, I believe, with Universal Pictures in general after that, not scoring another picture for them until "The Burbs" which was for his old pal and frequent collaborator Joe Dante, and then didn't work on their movies again in earnest (either by co-incidence or design) until 1994's "The Shadow" and "The River Wild".

Ironically he would go on to compose the fanfare for Universal in 1997 which is still used to this day.

Ridley Scott is a visionary when it comes to visuals, but is an ass when it comes to music IMHO. He seems to use Hans Zimmer or one of his Media Ventures crowd for just about everything now - as does Tony Scott. Says it all really.

 

[Kevin EK]

To give you a happier story with Jerry Goldsmith, I have worked with David Anspaugh, who worked well with Goldsmith.

He told me about screening a rough cut of Hoosiers for Jerry Goldsmith when they were trying to get him to do the score, even though they didn't have a big budget. Apparently, when the lights came up in the screening room, Goldsmith turned to the guys and, visibly moved, told them that he HAD to do the score, that this was one of those times. Looks like that worked out - he wound up with another Oscar nomination.