Power cords (1 Viewer)

[Shane Martin]

Again you both missed my point. My point was that Manufacturers have to cut back at some point in order to deliver a product a certain level. If going with a cheaper power cord is that way then so be it. Different strokes for different manufacturers.

 

[Tom Grooms]

My point was that Manufacturers have to cut back at some point in order to deliver a product a certain level. If going with a cheaper power cord is that way then so be it

Agreed! Some high end manufactures give you a crappy inexpensive power cord because they figure it will be replaced.

 

[Aaron Gilbert]

Andrew,

While the link you provided is great, I feel you're advising serious overkill. In fact, let's just use the calculator on that link you provided.

Let's assume Dave does actually have a subwoofer that's pulling 8.3 amps. That's highly unusual, but hey, it could happen with some of today's monster amplifiers and subwoofer drivers. Not that you should be IN the room without hearing protection unless your sub is absurdly inefficient (below 80 dB @ 1w/1m), but this is just hypothetical.

So, I put in Dave's 20 foot long power cord, put in 16 gauge as the wire, and 8.3 amps as the current draw. What do I find? I get a whopping voltage drop of 1.6 volts from 120 volts, or 1.3%. I hardly call that significant, even assuming the sub was playing continuously at that level, which we all know it won't be.

Let's take it a step farther to asses your belief that using too small a wire will just end up generating heat.
16 gauge wire has a resistance of 4.016 ohms per 1000 feet. We have 20 feet, so that works out to 0.08032 ohms. Since we know the current is 8.3 amps, we can use P = I^2 * R to find the power. It works out to be 8.3^2 * 0.08032, or 5.5 watts. Out of 1000 watts. I don't think a 20 foot length of 16 gauge wire is going to heat up noticeably by dissipating 5.5 watts.

Personally, I am completely with Dave on the price of these things. Sure, there ARE cords that are way more than $300. But I see no reason whatsoever to go to a larger gauge than the wiring already present inside the walls of my house. In my case, that's 14 gauge, which can safely pass 15 amps of current. I'd need a much bigger house to ever need a subwoofer amplifier capable of using 15 amps.


Aaron Gilbert

 

[Chu Gai]

I find it a pity that 'manufacturers' selling audiophile power cords don't have their stuff UL listed. But as was said, they've got to cut corners somewhere, right?

 

[Phil A]

Manuf. get their product to the market at a price point. They are not looking to maximize the quality of supplied accessories. Subs should not draw that much current. The supplied cords that came with my Rels were 18 gauge. The ones I made for it were 16 gauge. If you want something half decent that won't cost an arm or a leg and can skimp a bit on the length you can go to places like newark.com Stock No. 37F3338 is a 3 conductor 14 gauge 9 ft. 10 inch cord that is half decent and all you need is a plug such as a Hubbell 5266 (maybe $12-13) or an Eagle that you can guy at Home Depot for about $8. The cord is $16.36 plus shipping so you're talking a cost of about $30 (and you'll likely have something that would be sold for an equivalent of $150-200). The plugs just usually require a tiny bit of wire stripping and a screwdriver. The IEC end probably is not as good a connector as on most audiophile cords and if that bothers you a lot you can cut it off and replace it with a better one from $6-18. Distributors like Newark or Allied sell various cords in either 6 ft. 7 inch or 9 ft. 10 inch lengths. You can also get a 15 ft. hospital grade 16 gauge cord (Newark Part No. 29C2180) for $11.60 plus shipping and probably just have to change the IEC (to an IEC320) at the end, which, as noted above is a $6-18 cost (the Marinco and the Wattgate are at the upper end but easy to use and readily available from partsexpress.com) and all it would involve would be to cut off the supplied end and test which wire goes to each prong of the plug.

 

[Anthony~N]

Try elementcable.com the cord their is UL listed and very good in price.

 

[Phil A]

I also don't know why it has to be that long for the sub. One can get a product such as this: http://www.vansevers.com/companion.html

One can also get decent cords at places like www.diycable.com.

 

[DaveAr]

Okay, maybe I missed some points in asking my question.
First, why the lenght? Well, I was going to plug the sub into my Monster HTS 3600. The space between the audio rack (in an entertainment center) and where the sub is placed is further than 10', which was the avg lenght I found.
Stryke Audio contacted me and gave the following info:
The sub's total watts consumed by the amp is 750
I thought the longer caord would give me ample freedom to move around w/o plugging and unplugging, like when the wife cleans!
If the grand assumption here is that the 16 awg cord would not suffice, then I would need to seek another cord which would suit my needs.
But again, I face the problem. I cannot in good faith see a power cord costing the amounts I have seen.
If that is not feasable, then someone suggested a surge protector.
Can I plug the sub into a surge protector, then plug the surge protector into the Monster HTS 3600?
Or to simplify..........Has anyone plugged their sub into a line conditioner? Or can i bypass this, and simply plug into a regular wall socket?
Hence, that is my reason for the cord lenght.
If I do need a heavier duty cord, please let's start over with nominal suggestions. Not cordes that cost more than some receivers. Hell, I paid 400.00 for the pair of Axioms M22's. 300.00 for a cord, I still don't see it.
Thanks for all your input/opinions/factual statements.
That's why i like these places, pick several brains at once.
:b

 

[Wayne A. Pflughaupt]

Aaron,

You’re making a big deal about nothing here. Andrew’s point was merely that Dave shouldn’t replace the power cord with a smaller one. That’s true no matter what the appliance.

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt

 

[Andrew Testa]

What Wayne said.

Chu and Aaron,

Thanks to both of you for keeping me on my toes. Seriously. Aaron, you are correct that my first example was overkill, intentionally so. However I believe I misinterpreted the table at that website. The table lists continuous current, which would be DC (reasonable since they deal in batteries). RMS AC current would be I/sqrt(2), with I being the table value for max amperage. So since that 8.3 amps is RMS, the lookup value in the table should be 5.9, or 14 AWG.

In addition, the values on that table are seriously conservative. They assume a very low allowable temperature rise. I believe this should be followed if one is building their own power cables, since it's difficult for the DIYer to calculate the resistive heating per unit length that depends on insulator as well as the conductor properties. So the table represents a very conservative safe zone.

The NEC standards are obviously not so conservative since they assume the manufacturer will test and certify the cabling to meet temperature limits, which is 60C. So if you allow that much greater heating = power loss from the cable, you can use it for much higher power applications.

I did some research at Belden's master catalog where they have a great chart that shows RMS amperage ratings for wire sizes at 60C. 14 AWG 3 conductor sits right on 15 Amps, which nails the NEC standard.

I also looked through the Belden listings for power cords, and found that they rated all their cords, in all sizes, to that max 60C temperature. So you can get from them a 3 meter power cord in 18 AWG that is rated for 1250 Watts. Plus all their cords are UL listed.


David,

The Belden power cords you might look for are listed below. They are all 3 meters long and rated for 1250 Watts and higher, so your sub will never be restricted by the cord. You'll need to search for a Belden distributor, and you certainly don't have to pay through the nose for a good power cable.

Belden 17501 unshielded (18awg, 10A), 17503 (16awg, 13A), 17503 (14awg, 15A)
Belden 17743 shielded (18awg), 177603 (16awg), 17605 (14awg)

I looked at the Belkin computer cable and they did not list a power rating or a wire size. My guess is that it will work just fine, since computer power supplies are starting to get up there in power consumption. Also, it's a steal at that price. Belkin wants $36 for it on their site.

Andy

 

[John Garcia]

In the case of the exhaust, it's very easy to determine if the change was indeed a performance gain -- it's called a track.

No, it's called a dynamometer. Whenever I do any motor modifications, I head to the dyno to see what the gain was. Changing the exhaust (cat-back) on a Civic may net 2-5HP, which is all but meaningless, but exhaust on a big pushrod V8, the gains could be more substantial. All in all, exhaust is not the place to start tuning a car, IMO.

Back to power cords... I found a cable on Audiogon for $50, brand new, to replace the POS PC grade cable that didn't fit, that came with my receiver. This cable is touted as being used exclusively on all it's equipment by Telarc. For $50, it was worth it to me. Beyond that, with my current system, I can't justify $100 or more for a power cord. I hear no appreciable difference in sound quality with this cord.

 

[Chu Gai]

Hopefully you use the same dyno John! Yes, a piddling 2-5 HP gain is not the place to go first.

 

[John Garcia]

Yep, the guys at my local Dyno are great to deal with. Discount for repeat offenders, *I mean* attendees.

 

[GeorgeJM]

The track works just as well as the dyno if you're dealing with real HP changes, not those piddling 2-3hp gains on Civics The weight is a essentially a constant, so the only change is weather, which is easy to factor in using humidity, temperature and barometric pressure.

Back to the topic... on the question of plugging into a surge protector, well, it depends on the surge protector. I use a series mode surge protector and I have my sub plugged into it, and it sounds no different than when I plug it directly into the outlet.

 

[jonny h]

Dave-

Just a note of warning:

DO NOT PLUG YOUR SUB DIRCTLY INTO THE WALL!!!

I never thought my house would be struck by lightning. Until it happened last month. Among the things that got fried (KitchenAid mixer, 19" tv/vcr) was my subwoofer. Kaput. Dead. Please put yours on a surge supressor.

-Jonny H.

 

[Andrew Testa]

And put it on a GOOD surge protector.

My AV receiver got fried by a nearby lightning strike while plugged into a $45 MOV-based unit. The kicker is that none of the MOVs destructed, so the company refused to honor the "lightning warranty". And no, there where no connections to or from that receiver that didn't go through that unit.

So I bought one of the Brickwall units and have never looked back. Not a hint of any problems during minor surges, brownouts, or lightning.

If you use a UPS, Do Not use a computer UPS. Read the fine print on them: they do not output a sinusoidal current. Mine, an APC 1000, specifically warns not to use with audio equipment, and that the THD of the power waveform is 35%.

Andy

 

[GeorgeJM]

True. If you're going to use an UPS for sensitive equipment, make sure it has a 100% pure sine wave output.