Paradigm Configuration Question (1 Viewer)

[GeoffryB]

When I wrote last week, I was chosing between Paradigm and Boston Acoustic, and now that I have chosen Paradigm, my budget and wishes clash, so my compromise configuration is:

Monitor 7s Fronts

CC 370 Center

Titan Rears

PDR 10 Subwoofer

This for $1400 USD OTD(out the door)

I Initially wanted Mini Monitors for the rear, but the salesman convinced me that the Titans were good enough matches and that I would have a difficult time mounting the Mini Monitors on the wall. What are your thoughts on these two issues?

Or should I try for the ADP-170 or 370s, these seem to be more of a rear speaker design than either the Titans or the Mini Monitors.

Geoffry

 

[Sean_B]

My first paradigm system had the Atoms for the rear. They are a little smaller than the Titans and would be easier to mount. They seemed to do a pretty good job. I would spend less money now and go for the atoms that way you can save for studio series in the future. Hope this helps.

 

[Holadem]

Totally agree with Sean. If you're gonna go Titans for rear, go Atoms.

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Holadem

 

[GeoffryB]

But what about the ADP 170s or 370s aren't they more appropriate for the rear? I am not clear on what Paradigm means when they "optimized for reverberant sound" when describing the ADP models of speakers. Doesn't this mean, use for rear speakers?

Geoffry

 

[Saurav]

I believe the ADP's are dipoles, which means they throw a more diffuse soundfield, which means they're more appropriate for surrounds. However, this is a fairly debated issue, some people like dipoles/bipoles for surrounds, some don't; dipoles/bipoles supposedly work well in some configurations and not as well in others.
All this really means is, the ADP's would be a bad choice for front speakers. It doesn't mean you can't use normal (i.e. direct radiating) speakers for surround duty. If you want to delve into this further, you should research the whole dipole/bipole thing - what those technologies are, what they sound like, and what their recommended setup/applications are. Or, you could just go with the Atoms

 

[Bill Millar]

Geoffrey,
I have Monitor 7's and the center speaker is a 370 and my rear speakers are ADP 350's. It all comes down to you either like dipole surround speakers or you don't. I was lucky I picked up my dipole speakers cheap as they just couldn't sell them where I live.
My Paradigm dealer recommended Monitor 5's for the rear but Paradigm manufacturing recommends Dipole speakers. The Dipole speakers sound fine when I'm listening to 5.1 dolby movies, but if I was a music lover I would probably go with something different for the rear.
Bill

 

[Mickey Brown]

I have Reference fronts and Atoms for rears. They mount much better. Anything else looks like a tank up on your wall!

And the Atoms are great little speakers.

 

[Ron Eastman]

My setup is Monitor 7 mains, CC350 and Mini Monitors in the rear. I have my Minis currently sitting on bookcases.

I think part of your question was referring to why it's a bad idea to mount the Minis on the wall? They're rear ported and it's recommended that you have a few inches (I believe the manual that came with my Minis recommended 6") away from the wall. That can be difficult to do if you're wall mounting. I've brainstormed a few ideas, either suspended by wires from the ceiling or sitting on shelves that protrude from the wall. Problem is that I'm in an apartment right now so I'm not too interested in doing anything that would be considered "permanent".

The Titans should sound fine in the rear as it isn't as important to have perfectly timbral matched speakers back there as it is in the front but if you have a really critical ear you should stick with the Monitor line.

As far as dipole speakers are concerned, there are differing opinions to consider. THX recommends dipole speakers in a home setup to more accurately replicate the diffuse soundfield of a commercial theater which has a multiple rear speaker array. Dolby Digital on the other hand seems to favor direct radiating speakers in their recommendations for a home setup. The reason I went with Minis is that my future plans call for a dedicated home theater when I buy a house and I'd like to have multiple rear speakers on each side.

 

[GeoffryB]

Yes, I can only mount on the walls, and couldn't even hang them because of a stairway and doorway. If is kind of funny the more I know the more I don't know. I bought my 5.1 system recently and now 6.1s are plentiful and 5.1 is old news. One of the features that I will want to create is the phantom rear center channel. Will dipoles allow you to that?

Geoffry

 

[DavidY]

Why not just go up to the Paradigm Reference now?
Studio/20 (small bookshelf) are priced about the same as the Monitor 7 (medium floorstander). Add a matching centre for a smooth, timbre matched front end. Then add Atoms/Titans for the rears....once you are ready budget-wise, then move the Studio/20 to the rears and get Studio/20/40/60/100 mains.
IMO, there is a big difference in sound and build qualities between the Reference Studio series and the value oriented Monitor series.
Dave

 

[Ron Eastman]

A "phantom" rear center? If you plan on purchasing a receiver capable of 6.1/7.1, why not just add a "real" rear center? Maybe you say "phantom" knowing that DD-EX is matrixed but you really plan to add a physical rear center speaker? If that's the case, Steven Simon has dipoles for his side rear speakers and direct radiating for the rear center channel. I haven't heard any complaints from him about that setup, though I haven't heard 6.1 done with dipoles myself. I'm sure it sounds great but I have reservations about using a dipole rear center if that's what you're thinking.
Dave, I agree that the Reference Series are better quality speakers (but not necessarily a night and day difference from the very capable Monitor line) and I plan to step up to them someday. However, at 50-75% higher cost for comparably configured models between the Monitor and Studio lines they can be cost prohibitive to those of us on a lighter budget.

 

[GeoffryB]

No, I only have a 5.1 Sony ES system which is less than 6 months old, I don't plan on buy any more receivers for quite a while. However, the Sony ES allows you to create phantom/virtual speakers, so that it sounds like you have additional speakers in the back and on the side. I really don't know how well this works though

Geoffry

 

[DavidY]

Ron,

Sorry, but I beg to differ...I did find a significant difference between the Reference and Monitor series....much better sound quality and noticeable differences in build quality, especially the drivers...no comparison IMO. Several years ago, the Reference Studio/20 speakers just wowed me (better than the Studio/80 which were too muddy sounding). I was pretty indifferent about the Monitor 7 (Note: demos at different dealers).

Just my 2 cents Canadian. YMMV.

Dave

 

[Ariel]

if you have a small room, a properly setup 5.1 system is all you will need. for adp or direct for surrounds depend on your preferences and physical layout of the room. i used atoms for rears because my couch is already at the back wall and trying both the adp and direct gave me a better sound using the direct type. if you have a small room and have no immediate plan for multichannel music, the atom is your best choice for surround speakers.

regarding the reference studio series, they are really in a different level from the performance and monitors. i'll have to warn you not to listen to the reference series if you still don't have enough budget (i made this mistake a few months ago).

 

[Howard_S]

Reference Studio/20 speakers just wowed me (better than the Studio/80 which were too muddy sounding)

I don't think that is an accurate analysis. I'm not going to make a case out of the 80s being better sounding. But the 80s and even the 60s for that matter need to be heard with the volume up and in a large spacious room. The 80s in a small confined room with the volume down will be a waste of a good set of speakers. Perhaps this is the reason you thought the 80s sounded muddy. You really got to give the 80s some room.

 

[Ron Eastman]

Dave, I think the only thing we disagree on is the definition of "night-and-day." Like I mentioned in my earlier post, I agree that the Reference Series are better speakers and I even have plans to upgrade to them. My point is that the Monitor line are very capable of reproducing home theater sound which I hope you are not disagreening with. I have an uncle with a top of the line Bose system and I would say that my Monitor series setup is a night-and-day difference from them. I don't think that such strong words apply to the difference between the Studio and Monitor series speakers whose differences are more subtle than that.
Regardless, Geoffry wasn't asking about the Reference line so I'll step back and let this get back on topic.

 

[DavidY]

Howard_S,

I don't think that is an accurate analysis. I'm not going to make a case out of the 80s being better sounding. But the 80s and even the 60s for that matter need to be heard with the volume up and in a large spacious room. The 80s in a small confined room with the volume down will be a waste of a good set of speakers. Perhaps this is the reason you thought the 80s sounded muddy. You really got to give the 80s some room.

IMO, Studio/80 sounds muddy compared with other Studio models....A few years ago, I had compared the Studio/80 V.1 with Studio/20 V.1 in the same system (Adcom separates) in a medium to large room. A few others have also noted that the Studio/80 are muddy sounding as compared with other Studio models. This is likely due to the size of the woofer/midrange...it's 8 inches, all the other Studios have 6.5 inch woofer/midrange. This difference may also affect timbre-matching IMO (however slight).

Between the Studio/20 and Studio/80, I had preferred the Studio/20. At well less than half the price, it was a no brainer for me. Furthermore, if one is considering the Studio/80, why not consider the top of the line, Studio/100 instead for a few hundred dollars more. For 2 channel music, I prefer the Studio/20 over the Studio/60.

Ron,

Sorry, "Night and day" difference was a bit over the top. However, it was still very noticeable at least to me. During my 6 month long speaker auditioning, the Paradigm Reference speakers were one of the few that I took notice of. As for the build quality, I had compared the two at a Paradigm dealer....no comparison. Even the Paradigm dealer pointed that out and in addition, noted that there were more service returns on the Monitor series than the Reference series.

Dave

 

[Holadem]

This larger driver thing 8" vs 6 1/2" has been used a lot to "diss" the monitor 3, 9 and studio 80. I wonder how many people would still feel that way about hese speakers (muddy, bloated etc...) if they did not know the driver size. I seem to be the only one on this earth to prefer the monitor 3 to the mini monitor
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Holadem

 

[GarryW]

I started out with Monitor 7's, CC-350, and Atoms. Upgraded to Mini Monitors, then finally to ADP-350's. I like the ADP's the best beacuse they create a more "enveloping" type of surround sound.
The wife used to say "hey these things aren't on, are they?
Well, we were just watching SHREK and there is a scene near the end where a helcopter comes from behind and she actually covered her head and almost hit floor!
I said, "guess those are on, eh?"
IMO, the ADP's keep my eyes more glued to the screen, and I don't find myself looking over my shoulder anymore. Only problem is that they cost twice the amount, $700 pair.
In regards to the Studio line, they are better for music, especially two channel. I plan on upgrading to a pair Studio 60's or 100's eventually. Since I've moved to separates, that did make a BIG change in the sound of the Monitor line for me.
Where are you shoping in Chicago? I might be able to give you a few tips.

 

[GeoffryB]

I have been shopping at Midwest Stereo and Pro Music.

Pro Music is a class operation, but it doesn't feel like they actually want to sell me anything, or maybe they don't think I am a real buyer(I realize that some people like that a lot). They have weird hours and they really weren't trying to get me to my budget of $1500.

Midwest is really trying to sell something, but their knowledge is so spotty, and it appears that they would put together any configuration that gets me to my budget whether it is a good configuration or not.

I would like someone in the middle of these two, in my opinion I should be able to have someone help me with the compromises that I have to make and still have a very nice system for $1500.

The last time I looked got frustrated about it, I went and bought a computer instead, go for the flat screens they are nice.

Geoffry