*** Official STAR WARS Saga (episodes I to VI) Discussion Thread: Part 4 (1 Viewer)

[Steve Christou]

i have to chip in here. i saw TPM in the theaters for 16 full times =). and perhaps hundreds of times after when i bought the collector's item widescreen VHS + the eventual DVD.
i can safely say that it is no good. i mean, i wanted to like it so badly that i spent so much time&money invested in this franchise. i just thought that maybe if i just watched it 1 more time, somn would pop up... but it was the film that dislodged me from being a bigger SW fan than i am now (which is a discontented one).

Hang on a minute, you're saying you saw Phantom Menace 16 times at the cinema, hundreds of times on video and dvd before finally deciding that it's a bad film? erm... something wrong with that or is it just me? First of all there are far worse films than Episode I around, I know, I've seen them. Secondly you obviously loved the film the first 100 times you saw it, but kept on watching it until you were absolutely sick of the whole series. You've taken Star Wars fan worship to a whole new level Jedifooonger!
I wonder if the Batty fans who saw The Dark Knight 100 times last year are sick of it yet? The nearest I ever got to that sort of lunacy is when I saw Jaws about a dozen times at the cinema back in the 70's, the difference is I never got sick of the film and it remains in my top 10 favourites list.

Nat contemplating Jedifonger's post.

 

[Josh Steinberg]

I think somewhere in TPM is a pretty good kids movie.... it's by no means terrible, but in my opinion the weakest of all six of the films. But it was still exciting just to have Star Wars back on the big screen, and there was always more I liked than didn't about the movie.
Years later, I saw the so-called "Phantom Edit" version, and while generally I hate "fan edits", this one was extremely well done. The few other fan edits of various films I had encountered seemed like they wanted to change the meaning or story of the film, but I find it way too hard to take that kind of thing seriously. (Case in point: one fan edit I had seen dubbed Jar-Jar in an "alien" language so they could subtitle him and have him say whatever they wanted, somehow turning him into a different character... it didn't work for a number of reasons, but especially because you can't really turn a film into something it's not an expect it to work.) But this "Phantom Edit" project made lots of subtle trims so while it was on, it was tough to point out exactly what was missing, but somehow the film flowed a lot better. I think it just proved the point of what a fine line there is between a good film and a mediocre film, and how important editing can be in making sure that emphasis is placed on the proper characters and events. In the "Phantom Edit", the plot hasn't been changed in any way, but it felt like the plot never came to a halt for childish antics, which one could argue the theatrical cut does.
Bottom line for me is I'm always gonna love the Star Wars movies, from the best one to the worst, and it's always gonna be fun for me. "Sith" and "Empire" are the only ones of the bunch that I'd consider to be genuinely brilliant, emotionally involving films, but the others are too much fun for me to ever get to down on them.
And by the way, I completely agree with everyone who has made the point that the last 45 minutes of Episode II is some of the most exciting stuff ever done in a Star Wars film... the movie takes its time getting to that point, but the whole Obi-Wan mystery arc that culminates in the final battle and beginning of the war is first-rate.

 

[Chris Atkins]

I think somewhere in TPM is a pretty good kids movie.... it's by no means terrible, but in my opinion the weakest of all six of the films. But it was still exciting just to have Star Wars back on the big screen, and there was always more I liked than didn't about the movie.

I think the main problem with the story is that the main thread is dark, complex and foreboding, and then a lot of goofy stuff is thrown in on top of it, maybe to make the dark stuff less dark. The result is a tone that is jarring, ranging from Jar Jar-s goofy antics to scenes that are completely haunting (i.e. the conversation between Yoda/Obi-Wan near the end leading into the funeral).
I think there are quotes from Lucas out there acknowledging that he threw the kiddy stuff in to make it less dark (and some of them may go all the way back to the late 70s/early 80s).

 

[Darren_N]

All,

Here's an issue that I believe has been brought up before but I want to ask it again now that it relates me. Our oldest daughter is 6 now and has had some exposure to Star Wars but has never seen the movies. I believe the force is strong with her and that she is ready to start her training (although I'm still not sure she's ready to see Anakin burned to a crisp). So if I do start watching the movies with her, in what order do we watch them? I've always thought IV-VI first, then I-III in order to preserve the surprise of who Luke's father is. But I've also seen suggestions of IV, V, I, II, III, VI to show the rise of Luke (IV, V), then the rise and fall of Anakin (I, II, III), and eventually Luke's victory and Anakin's redemption (VI).

Any thoughts?

Darren

 

[STARKILLER1138]

Nat contemplating Jedifonger's post.

Oh dear lord! She can take all the time she needs!

 

[Ben Osborne]

Like JediFonger, I saw TPM many times (about 5) in theatres, and now think it a bad movie. I had a lot emotionally invested in it I bought the action figures, pre-ordered tickets to the first screening that I could get tickets to. It was the first movie where I lined up hours before the showtime, and the first movie I saw at a midnight screening. So, I wanted to like it in a bad way.
There's a phenomena called cognitive dissonance where you're not able to acknowledge something even when the evidence is right before you. I think that's what I experienced with TPM. I was not ready to accept that a movie I had so much invested in was so disappointing. I don't think it was until after I bought the movie on VHS that I came to terms with that.
For me the biggest problem with the movie is the Tatooine portion. They spend way too much time on that planet. Even the first time I saw the movie, I couldn't wait until they left it. The pod race, which viscerally exciting, seems like a red herring and waste of precious screen time.
Here's what I did like about the movie:
1. Opening sequence of Jedis kicking ass on Trade Federation ship
2. Jedis killing robots on Naboo
3. Darth Maul vs. Qui Gon on Tatooine
4. Various Coruscant scenes
5. Final Duel With Darth Maul, obviously
That stuff adds to maybe 20 minutes. The less I think about the rest of the movie, the better.

 

[Chris Atkins]

The pod race, which viscerally exciting, seems like a red herring and waste of precious screen time.

Conceptually, the scene exists to show us Anakin's skills. Would have been nice to see him do it (on purpose) in a space battle, but when he is nine years old you can't realistically show that (hence him accidentally blowing up the ship at the end). And that's why we got a lenghty pod race.

 

[Brent M]

Wow, 10 years goes by fast!!!

 

[Gary Seven]

i have to chip in here. i saw TPM in the theaters for 16 full times =). and perhaps hundreds of times after when i bought the collector's item widescreen VHS + the eventual DVD.
i can safely say that it is no good.

My God, man... it took that many viewing times to come to that obvious conclusion? Well, certainly, no one can fault you for trying.

 

[STARKILLER1138]

My God, man... it took that many viewing times to come to that obvious conclusion? Well, certainly, no one can fault you for trying.

No doubt! Either he's a persistent SOB, or dumber than a box of rocks.

 

[Shad R]

I remember when I saw TPM. I was working at Pizza Hut at the time and we had a tie-in promotion with the Star Wars movies. My manager scored me a pair of tickets to a special advanced screening in April! It was the first time it had EVER been shown to and audience. It was in Denver at the 16th street mall, and it was definitely and event. I considered selling my tickets, as they were going for $250 a pop on ebay. I'm glad I went, but I was a little let down by the movie. Ah memories.

 

[TravisR]

So if I do start watching the movies with her, in what order do we watch them? I've always thought IV-VI first, then I-III in order to preserve the surprise of who Luke's father is.

I think either 'I to VI' or 'original trilogy and then prequel trilogy' work. But if it were me, I'd show her the original trilogy first and then the prequel trilogy. Seeing IV to VI and then I to III didn't negatively effect my enjoyment of the saga so I don't think it'll bother future generations either.
I get the idea of watching them as IV, V, I, II, III and VI (or whatever variation someone comes up with) but, to me, that order is more of a curiosity for a hardcore fan than a way to introduce someone to Star Wars.

 

[JediFonger]

it's actually not just TPM, i take my time w/music too. i'll listen to it a dozen times just to prove that it sux and i qualify myself as an expert of that music to say that it sux .
i, like ben osborne, had SO much invested in it because i just came off of the 1997 re-release highs. i never bought into the fandom before that. it was the 1997 re-release that nudged me into the 'dark side' as it were. i was in line 5:30AM and waited til 3PM until i bought the tickets in my hands w/my buddies. like many SW fans, i was one of them kracy kidz doing lightsaber duels that we replicated just from the quicktime trailer of TPM.
of course, we all went midnight screening opening night and then... came out of it completely disappointed. i mean i was... but i was in denial. i just told them all that i needed time to process everything. i couldn't "let go" like anakin in AOTC and eventually just kept watching it until the Vader in my killed the fandom .

 

[Simon Massey]

So if I do start watching the movies with her, in what order do we watch them? I've always thought IV-VI first, then I-III in order to preserve the surprise of who Luke's father is. But I've also seen suggestions of IV, V, I, II, III, VI to show the rise of Luke (IV, V), then the rise and fall of Anakin (I, II, III), and eventually Luke's victory and Anakin's redemption (VI).

Err..she is 6!!!!! I dont think its going to make much difference to her

. Try V, II, VI, I, IV, III and I doubt it will affect whether she enjoys them.
A friend of mine has a 6 year old boy who was obsessed with Star Wars and Darth Vader even though he had never seen the films (and at 53 the father had never even seen them either!!!) He watched them 1-6 loved all of them but I dont think he decides to watch them in order now - just chooses one at random that he feels like watching. All he really wanted to see was Darth Vader!!!! (and he had to wait nearly 3 films)

 

[Bryan X]

I'd just show them to her 1-6. She's 6 so TPM might hook her with all the goofiness and young Anakin. As far as spoiling the "I am your father" surprise, I don't get the big deal. I was 11 when ESB came out and it was hardly a secret if you followed the franchise at all. Knowing the "surprise" before seeing it in the theater didn't ruin anything for me at all back in the day.

Besides, if you make an effort to preserve that surprise, you'll ruin the surprise of innocent little Annie turning becoming Darth Vader. Arguably, just as big of a revelation. It's just that our generation who grew up with the OT doesn't see it like that because we've known all along that Anakin becomes Darth Vader. But if you look at it from the perspective of someone going in with no knowlege at all, it's a pretty big shocker.

 

[mattCR]

I guess I may just be in a different boat. I recognize all of those who really dislike TPM, but I've always found TPM to be one of those films that makes me laugh at the right moment. Maybe it's just because I look at it differently, but TPM has really grown on me into the film I thought it would be when I first watched it.
When I first saw it in the theater, I was insanely dissappointed; it simply wasn't the Star Wars I was looking for. I remembered standing in line to see Empire and Jedi. I wanted the story to grow up with me.
But years after TPM was at the theater, I watched it with my 8 year old, who laughed, bounced around on his seat, and enjoyed the hell out of it.
I watch a lot of film/tv, and after a few viewings of thinking it was "OK" I realized there was something about TPM I really loved - it reminded me of all the goof-ball 1920s serials. I had just finished watching some of "The Phantom Riders" (Gene Autry serial I think from the 30s) and laughed and went along with the super goofy - but fun - premise.
And I thought about TPM. Yes, it's goofy, and it has a lot of jarring, crazy moments where stilted acting rules. But it is so completely spot on with the way serials were produced that it struck me as almost: what would happen if George B Seitz had an infinite production budget to film Commander Cody? Then we watched some Flash Gordon, the old, traditional serials.
And after that, I was pretty well sold. TPM is one of those films that I think a lot of people want to further the films as they remember, to grow up as they grew up. But it is what it is, it's goofy, crazy, stilted fun that is eerily in the same ballpark as those strange serials. It has over the top set pieces - just like Flash Gordon - where you feel like "most of the budget is in THESE shots", it has almost the same dialog and delivery.
I've seen TPM a few times with the kids now. And, while I really had a mixed to somewhat dislike of it for the first few years, I've grown to really appreciate it for what it is.
I don't know if Lucas meant it the way that it turned out, but it's a romp with almost all of the key elements that made up those 15 minute serials if they were all strung together.
I'll eagerly await the day it appears on bluray now.

 

[Tom J. Davis]

I called most of my friends that went with me to the midnight showing all those years ago and we reminisced about how much fun we had.
I like tpm it has problems but it's Star Wars and that's all that really mattered to me.

The buildup to the movie was amazing but the thing I'll always remember is my then 3 year old son was just discovering Star Wars. What a great time! Going to see the movies, watching the tpm laserdisc, shopping for toys! Wouldn't trade it for anything.
He's older now and watches more espn than anything else, but still remarks that he misses waiting for a new Star Wars movie.

I also have to give a shout out to Timobi! Was anyone more excited for a new Star Wars movie? In three years we will get to talk about how many times Tim went to see AOTC!

 

[Greg.K]

10 years ago - wow.
My son was 3 at the time as well, and he's grown up loving Star Wars. But he's more of a fan of the prequels, oddly enough - the OT's effects look silly to him.

 

[Todd H]

My son is about to turn two and I can't wait until he's old enough to sit and watch the Star Wars flicks with me. Of course, I'm sure his Mom doesn't agree with me. We'll just have to send Mom out of the house for the day.

 

[STARKILLER1138]

10 years ago - wow.
My son was 3 at the time as well, and he's grown up loving Star Wars. But he's more of a fan of the prequels, oddly enough - the OT's effects look silly to him.

Same with my girls (14, 12, and 8). They understand it's an important part of the saga though.