*** Official "8 MILE" Discussion Thread (1 Viewer)

[Carlos_E]

Edwin. I see your point.

However, I meant crazy in the sense of that nobody was predicting these HUGE numbers. NOBODY. The website boxofficeguru.com (a site that I respect) had been predicting 25 million.

Maybe I am behind the times. I didn't know rap music has this kind of mainstream appeal.

Edwin, if you predicted these kind of numbers beforehand, then I tip my hat to you. But come on, aren't you at least a little bit surprised?

Also, did you see the movie and did you like it. Thanks.

Carlos

 

[Patrick G]

I can't believe this thread isn't 10 pages long by now. 54.5 million!!???!!! This is truly unprecedented. Incredible!

 

[Roberto Carlo]

Actually, I think the last time this happened was with "Purple Rain."

I think that Jennifer Lopez pulled off the same triple whatever in early 2001.

 

[Patrick G]

I think that Jennifer Lopez pulled off the same triple whatever in early 2001.

Nope, she had the #1 album and #1 movie in January of last year. Her song, "Love Don't Cost A Thing" didn't reach #1 until February.

 

[Edwin Pereyra]

Carlos, I did not predict anything for 8 Mile's box office take this weekend. But I do see now where you are coming from.
This was on my list to see this weekend but did not get a chance to. I'll post my thoughts when I see it in the next few days. But I was happy to see and enjoyed Femme Fatale this weekend.

What four-day holiday weekend?

Here we go again.
~Edwin

 

[Trenton McNeil]

Tag. Just waiting for Crawdaddy's comments.

 

[Robert Crawford]

Trenton,
I never made it to the theater to see 8 Mile due to getting caught up watching Criterion's Monterey Pop Festival dvd. Great disc by the way. Anyhow, I will try to catch the film probably on Tuesday after work.



Crawdaddy

 

[Lou Sytsma]

Hmmm - anyone want to comment on the portrayal of women in this film? From what I hear it's pretty demeaning.

Also the movie puts a false front storywise. For further info check out Poland's review at TheHotButton.

 

[Morgan Jolley]

The portrayal of women isn't demeaning, it's the portrayal of the women in the film that's realistic. Kim Basinger looked too good in each scene to be what she was supposed to be, but the way she was portrayed was realistic, not demeaning. Same thing goes for Brittany Murphy.

 

[Lou Sytsma]

The portrayal of women isn't demeaning, it's the portrayal of the women in the film that's realistic.

So are you saying that all women will sleep around to get what they want? That sounds pretty demeaning to me.
From your remark I am not sure if you read Poland's review.
Here is a link to it:
http://www.thehotbutton.com/Reviews/VOH/8_mile.html

 

[chung_sotheby]

Lou, if you haven't seen the movie, which I assume that you have not, then don't try to comment on the portrayal of women in the movie.
Now, are you going to also say that the portrayal of blacks in the film is demeaning, as they continously mentally and physically abuse other people, including Rabbit? I think that too many people have a tough time differentiating artistic freedom and political correctness. In the movie, Rabbit's mother and his love interest, Alex, do some wrong thing, but in no way is the director or the writer trying to portray women as gold-chasing sluts. This is just what these women are like, and it has nothing to do with what the movie is trying to say. Too many people have tried to nitpick Eminem's lyrics, his attitude, and all his creative endeavors for the details instead of seeing the whole context. Eminem, the director Curtis Hanson, and the writer Scott Silver are not using these negative traits of these women to suggest that all women are like this, rather that this is just part of Rabbit's life, how he has to overcome a morally decrepit home life, romantic life and social life to realize his gift and his dream.
I think that for the most part, too many critics deem themselves high and mighty, and try to impart their opinions instead of just expressing them, the ol' Rosie O'Donnell and Oprah Winfrey virus. But then again, this is just my opinion, so do with it as you want.

 

[Lou Sytsma]

With the exception of a 5-year-old and a lunch truck rapper, every female character in this movie that has lines is portrayed as a whore. And I’m not saying that a female character who engages in sex early in a relationship is a whore. Or that a woman shouldn’t enjoy vigorous sex lives. The movie is quite specific. Every key woman in this movie has sex for financial advancement.

Is the above true?

 

[chung_sotheby]

Lou, the best advice that I have for you is to see the movie. Don't try to formulate opinions about a movie solely by critics' reviews. While Dave Poland is entitled to his opinion, I just tend to disagree with some of his points. If his train of thought was used for a review of another very good Curtis Hanson movie, then it would probably read something like this:

-All of the creative types within this film are sexually ambiguous and morally confused
-For the two main characters in this film, drugs are unapologetically used as the means of escape from personal issues.
-This movie doesn't like black people. All the black characters are interested in stealing cars and holding innocent citizens up with guns
-The women in this movie, or at least all thoses who have speaking parts, are basically power-hungry whores. They flaunt and use their sexuality to gain favor from their idols, represented by the central creatively gifted main character

Now, when taken out of context, all of the above statements about Wonder Boys is true. But given the nature of the film, as well as the detail and feeling that Curtis Hanson and Steve Kloves infuse into both the narrative and the characters to validate their believability, these plot points are not seen as racist, misogynistic and fatalistic, but rather as details that make the movie into an organic and ultimately satisfying experience.

 

[Lou Sytsma]

I just tend to disagree with some of his points.

Fair enough - which points do you majorly disagree with?

 

[Morgan Jolley]

So are you saying that all women will sleep around to get what they want? That sounds pretty demeaning to me

I said that the film was a portrayal of THESE women, not ALL women. The two women in the film obviously don't represent all women, but their characters are just that: characters. Eminem is a white guy in his early 20s, does that mean all young white men live in the ghetto and rap?

Until you see the movie, you technically don't know what you're talking about. The two main females in the film are money-grubbing whores that serve the purpose of the film, not a social stereotype that reflects the opinions of the director, actors, or anyone else involved with the film.

Look at it like this: if the women in the film were horrible portrayals of women and are supposed to represent women all over America, do you think those actresses would have taken the roles? The female characters in the film are deep, complex, and end results of the society they live in. They're not supposed to be prime examples of women.

That reviewer obviously wanted to hate the movie before he went to see it. I saw the movie and I don't think any less of women because of it.

In fact, the end of the film has a relatively good end result for BOTH of the female characters in the film.

 

[Lou Sytsma]

the end of the film has a relatively good end result for BOTH of the female characters in the film.

Ah yes - the old "The means justifies the end" paradigm.

Also you're confusing my questions about the movie with the Poland review. I was asking for feedback on his review. Do you agree with him or not.

 

[Alex Spindler]

I'm going to have to side with Morgan and Chung on this one. Poland's review is bizarre in that he acknowledges superiority in pretty much all of the films features, specifically mentioning it is "well directed, beautifully shot, well acted, well written, well scored and well edited" but disappointed because it doesn't seem to be realistic or moral in it's portrayal of characters.

Without resorting to the argument that he is seeing racism and misogynism because he is looking for it (which I am tempted to believe), I will instead say what I saw in the characters in this film. All of which are littered with spoilers, so beware.

Everyone in the film is in a deep dark hole that they desperately try to dig out of, typified by the gritty Detroit streets. There are those that seek their escape through any one of a number of desperate pie in the sky ideals. Rabbit dreams of a musical career, Future argues for a musical label, Alex believes she has a shot at getting to New York with a modeling career, and Rabbit's mom believes that a relationship with a man in her life will solve everything. Strangely enough, all of them get their shot in one way or another.

Rabbit develops the confidence to seek out his fortune without choosing easier paths. He is tempted to work at the plant, to fall under the thumb of his wannabe mega-producer, and stay with Future hosting battles with his newfound credibility. Instead he decides that he will use his newfound victory to strike out on his own and make his own life. David chooses to see this as a negative outcome, but I believe that is a perception not heavily shared.

Future, who himself is portrayed as a strong black character in the film, is a smart established figure in his community. He holds some notoriety and dreams of propelling himself and Rabbit into stardom. He also maintains confidence in Rabbit despite a heavy falling out, which I would say is a very strong black and white relationship.

Alex, who appears to be unashamed of using sex as a tool, buys herself a ticket to New York. She is shown early on to be carefully controlling her fate (as evidenced by her saving money to create an a resume of photos and developing a contract). She doesn't appear to let that stop her from connecting with Rabbit at all, and supporting him in his goals.

Rabbit's mom has tried to latch onto a loser who promises financial security for her family. He leaves her when it is clear she will no longer provide a roof over his head. In a bizarre windfall, she has money dropped in her lap, which breaks one of the few shackles to Rabbit's exodus. This was a conceit in the film that I didn't agree with because it wasn't an earned escape. His mother appears to be doing everything she can to support her family, including sleeping with someone she doesn't love, giving a car to rabbit when he needs it, and giving him a home at the beginning of the film. She is also trailer trash with a drinking problem. Quite realistically portrayed based on my own experience with people in similar situations.

It is very interesting the things that David specifically mentions in his critique of the film. He mentions that the use of a gay character was a disingenuous attempt to sanitize Eminem's reputation. Interesting, in that I took it to be very unstereotypical gay character (not flamboyant) while the rest of the film continues a (very realistic, I might add) use of gay related terms as derogatory throughout.

He mentions that all of the black characters are shown in a negative light. He doesn't mention the plant manager, a black man, who has some amount of success and doesn't abuse his power (his criticisms of Rabbit are valid and he rewards him with an offer of more work when he improves). He doesn't mention that the only "buffoon" in the movie is his white friend Cheddar. Cheddar also fails to "hook up" with either a black or a white girl, if I remember correctly. He is also one of only two characters to hold a gun, which he uses to shoot himself. The other is a black guy among the antagonistic "Free World" crew.

I suppose my point is that he tries very hard to focus on any element that was negative, and seemed to be trying very hard to find them. I found the characters to be realistic in their situations, reactions, and solutions to their lives. I thought that they avoided (with the exception of the Bingo windfall) easy solutions and avoided stereotypes. There wasn't violence for violence's sake, and every violent act held consequences (Cheddar shoots himself, Rabbit gets beaten for beating up several people (don't forget that he attacks the "Real World" crew two times as well as the producer before they retaliate). They also emphasize not using violence to solve their problems, but instead their talent (which was successfully portrayed without seeming like a cheesy afterschool special). Education doesn't factor in as they are all post high school age and have not pursued a college career.


I highly recommend watching the movie before discussing the moral merits of it. You are basing entirely your stance on the opinion of one reviewer that, based on a glance at RTomatoes, is not shared widely.

 

[Morgan Jolley]

This was a conceit in the film that I didn't agree with because it wasn't an earned escape

I disagree. First of all, she apparently went to play bingo every chance she could, so it's like she was bound to eventually win. Second, her winning the money is sort of things going for the better, sort of showing Rabbit that he has to keep things going in that direction. Her winning the money was a good thing for both of them.

 

[Benson R]

I hear this criticism about many movies often over their portrayal of women in a negative light. I fail to see anything wrong with including negative female characters. Should every female character be the ideal woman?

One of my favorite movies of the last couple years was Blow and I remember a similar comment being leveled at it. Several reviewers said the movie was misogynistic because of the way Johny Depp's mother and wife were betrayed. Those reviewers completely missed the point that Depp's character made the same mistake as his father by marrying a materialistic woman and also ignored the positive portrayal of his first girlfriend

I think it is important not to write one dimensional female characters but that does not mean they can't portray negative ones.

 

[Inspector Hammer!]

I've got a real dilemma on my hands here, first, I love Curtis Hanson, L.A. Confidential is one of the best films ever made IMO. On the other hand however I cannot stand Eminem (why is he so pissed off all the time?) or rap (why is it so pissed off all the time?).
But, despite all the praise, I have no interest at all in this films subject matter and I have even less interest in Eminem. IMO the guy needs to cheer up and smile once in awhile. What happened to him to make him so bitter and angry?
So I guess my dilemma isn't as big as I thought, I won't be seeing this one.