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Nobody mentioned it yet? (The End of Plasma) (1 Viewer)

DaveF

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nigel19 said:
And you call me a joke.Don't you mean "Oh oh - someone has dared disagree with my "expert" opinion and I don't have a response".Maybe because you have "HTF Reviewer" next to your name you think you should get some kind of [] respect from other members.2 posts you've put into this thread and you've contributed nothing .How about a reasoned argument to support your opinion or is that asking too muchI'm still laughing at the word "expert" above your name.Expert in what ?
Moderator hat on:Ok, that's enough. HTF doesn't require agreement nor friendship. But it does require civility. Vulgar insults are unacceptable. First warning. Second warning leads to loss of privileges.
schan1269 said:
No, you like all the other [], think they are LED TV..
Sam, same warning. I advise you to not be baited into responding in kind. This is not a schoolyard.
 

Persianimmortal

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This really doesn't need to be debated. Objectively, plasma consistently wins on virtually every significant measure of image quality, from motion handling, color reproduction, and consistently lower black levels (without haloing around whites), through to input lag for gaming, viewing angles, and screen uniformity.

If, despite this, you prefer an LCD TV, then that is your subjective preference.

People once again need to keep in mind that there really is no such thing as an "LED TV". It's the exact same Liquid Crystal Display (LCD) technology inside both an LCD and LED TV - a matrix of twisting crystals with a backlight shining through them. The only difference is that LED TVs have different backlight configurations using an LED lighting system rather than a CCFL lighting system, which can improve color reproduction over standard LCDs, and depending on how the light is diffused, can also improve uniformity and black levels - but only on the more expensive LCD-LEDs, and in virtually all cases, still technically inferior to the uniformity and black levels of plasma.

Part of the reason why LCD-LED is so popular is because of its overly bright appearance under store lighting as Malcolm has pointed out, grabbing the average consumer's attention. The majority of LCD-LED TVs are also very poor quality (to keep prices down), with a range of problems that the average consumer just won't notice, such as poor color reproduction and non-uniform screens, along with software gimmicks to cover up poor motion handling.

Atfree hit the nail on the head when he said that companies cater to the lowest common denominator instead of quality. It's the same reason why if you open a good quality restaurant next door to a McDonalds, you will wind up going broke.

It's also interesting to note one Panasonic insider's opinion on this topic. Over at another forum, a Panasonic TV designer said this shortly after Panasonic announced it would no longer be releasing plasmas:
At a cross roads guys. I'm a part of a company that after the massive layoffs I can no longer respect. The inhumanity shown for the sake of covering up poor business decisions and mistakes has lead me to this point. Where I no longer wish to be part of this company that for many years has been my home. I'll actively be looking for new employment in the coming months as I cannot get behind products such as led knowing it's inferior to the zt [plasma].
This is an insider who designed both plasma and LCD-LED TVs, who would rather look for another job than be stuck with building inferior products. Says it all really.
 

sidburyjr

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OTOH, I bought a viera 60" ST60 (the latest model) about a year ago from BestBuy for 1500 plus tax minus the rewardzone rebates. Since it is no longer being produced they seem to be going at prices from 2000 to 5000. Right now, I wouldn't take 2k but 5k would probably get me to give it up (and look for some other plasma somewhere that's still being produced).
 

cineMANIAC

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I've had a Panasonic 50 inch Plasma TV since 2009 and have been very happy with it despite it being just 720p. I'm now looking to upgrade to a larger screen and full 1080 but am dreading the thought of having to buy an LCD because I know they are inferior to plasma. You can tell just by looking at them in places like Best Buy. Even if you turn down the brightness levels after you set it up at home you're still stuck with a toy TV. I never thought buying a new television set would almost feel like paying taxes.

BTW, is it safe to use glass cleaner to clean a plasma screen? Thought I'd throw this question in here as long as we're on this topic :)
 

FoxyMulder

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cineMANIAC said:
BTW, is it safe to use glass cleaner to clean a plasma screen? Thought I'd throw this question in here as long as we're on this topic :)
Don't use anything with chemicals in it.

I use a lint free cloth and a dab of water, i do mean a very tiny dab of water, pin prick size and, only if i see a spot on the screen.

Oh and the tiny dab of water would be on the cloth and not directly onto the screen, it's very important that it's lint free.

I had a laugh at the article on this site below, it mentions using a vacuum cleaner, i think it's bad advice.

http://www.wikihow.com/Clean-a-Plasma-TV-Screen

I would never use a vacuum cleaner, okay they aren't touching the screen directly but it could happen by accident.
 

cineMANIAC

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FoxyMulder said:
Don't use anything with chemicals in it.

I use a lint free cloth and a dab of water, i do mean a very tiny dab of water, pin prick size and, only if i see a spot on the screen.

Oh and the tiny dab of water would be on the cloth and not directly onto the screen, it's very important that it's lint free.

I had a laugh at the article on this site below, it mentions using a vacuum cleaner, i think it's bad advice.

http://www.wikihow.com/Clean-a-Plasma-TV-Screen

I would never use a vacuum cleaner, okay they aren't touching the screen directly but it could happen by accident.

Thanks. I was using a lint-free cloth - the one that comes with the blue liquid and sold at places like Best Buy - but all it does is spread the smudges! Maybe I need a new cloth and that dab of water instead of the liquid cleaner that came with the cloth. Will try it.
 

FoxyMulder

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cineMANIAC said:
Thanks. I was using a lint-free cloth - the one that comes with the blue liquid and sold at places like Best Buy - but all it does is spread the smudges! Maybe I need a new cloth and that dab of water instead of the liquid cleaner that came with the cloth. Will try it.
I found that just using a cloth does tend to spread smudges, a dab of water and try and move it over the area carefully, sometimes circular motions, sometimes straight line or up and down, i have problems with smudges on my glasses, takes a bit to clean off.
 

SAhmed

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cineManiac I have found "Screen Guard" (available from Amazon and I'm sure elsewhere") to be quite good at cleaning a Plasma screen without leaving smudges - I have an older 50 inch Panasonic (circa 2009) that I use it on without any problems.

Regards,
 

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Given the choice, I would never go with LCD/LED unless I absolutely had to, and even then, it would absolutely have to be calibrated for me to watch.

My Pioneer PRO-101FD is the pride and joy of my otherwise modest HT. It was professionally calibrated about five years ago (could probably do with another go now) and is still going strong with movies that look like movies.

Last year I bought a new Panasonic 65" ZT60, which sits in my bedroom, currently not calibrated, and is used very sparingly, though it is hooked up to an Oppo and a cable box. It is too large for the HT center in my current set-up.

When the Kuro dies (hopefully never), or when I have the space and feel the need to go bigger in my HT, the Panasonic will be calibrated, and take over.

After that one dies, it will be projection on a screen, I should think. Or perhaps Plasma 2.0 will come around.

Or perhaps mental illness will consume me, and I will be watching movies on the biggest, best screen of all, the one inside my head.
 

Bryan^H

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I'm getting the model I mentioned by October. It is very unfortunate that plasma is ending. I'm hoping the Plasma I buy will last many years, and hopefully by the time it dies, there will be something better.
 

Persianimmortal

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cineMANIAC said:
BTW, is it safe to use glass cleaner to clean a plasma screen? Thought I'd throw this question in here as long as we're on this topic :)
To expand on Malcolm's answer, no chemical should ever be used when cleaning a plasma or LCD screen as it can strip or smear the special anti-reflective coating, resulting in a permanent mess. Distilled water and a microfiber cloth is the best option, even better is to never touch the screen and just use a dry cloth every few months to remove any dust.
McCrutchy said:
Given the choice, I would never go with LCD/LED unless I absolutely had to, and even then, it would absolutely have to be calibrated for me to watch.
The problem of course is that even the best LCD-LED TV in the world, calibrated by the best professional available, faces the physical limitations of LCD technology. Chief among these is that an LCD's pixel response time will never be as fast as plasma, because plasma pixels can switch on or off almost instantly, while an LCD crystal needs to physically change shape. So motion handling will always be an issue, and will never look as natural as on a plasma.Furthermore, the fundamental nature of an LCD screen is that it doesn't emit light directly from each pixel; the light shines from behind the pixel, from the appropriately named backlight. On a plasma, each pixel is a lit phosphor cell which directly emits its own light. This is why an LCD image displays changing brightness and color saturation as you alter your viewing angle. The lack of precise per-pixel light control is also why, even on local dimming LCD-LEDs, which supposedly have great blacks, there are issues such as haloing around bright objects shown against dark backgrounds and/or dimmer whites when part of the screen is dark. LCD-LEDs simply don't have the native contrast capability to present both rich blacks and crisp, bright whites in the same scene at any time. It's either deep blacks and slightly hazy, dirty whites, or bright whites and milky blacks, depending on the scene.An LCD-LED is an efficient and functional display device, but presents too many compromises in the critical areas of motion and contrast to give a high quality image. With the exception of image retention issues, we had the best of all worlds with plasma, killed off for all the wrong reasons.
 

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The death of Plasma is the death of another superior quality product to that of a lesser quality product. The same is true for other superior formats of their day such as VHS over Beta. I own two plasma displays and two LED LCD displays and the Plasma sets are far superior in every important category. All sets are calibrated to the rooms they are in and the LED displays just can't compete. The biggest short-falls for the LED displays are the black levels and the range of viewing angles. There's a very good reason why most videophiles will choose a Plasma over an LCD display for critical viewing.

Just because a product is popular and sells well doesn't mean it's the one consumers should purchase it. I blame the lack of Plasma sales on a lack of education in the general public as well as the big box stores failure to properly calibrate their sets on display.

As a results the consumers lose and the manufacturers profit with a less expensive, lesser quality product. I'll be keeping my Panny Plasma's until they fall off the walls they are mounted on. One of those Plasma displays is 8 years old and looks amazing still. One of my LED displays is 2 years old and already has issues with dead pixels. What a huge marketing failure by the manufacturers of these amazing sets.
 

Powell&Pressburger

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Above post complete agreement. Honestly this really isn't news. even my Panasonic flagship model from last year was to be their pinnacle of Plasma and they took it as far as it could go. The next TV I buy will be years away since Id like 4K but to be honest without discs 4K is useless and depending ony the screen size it may not be worth it. again a lot of variables and Id rather wait more years to see how the technology and proces go. I love my plasma no other TV comes close IMO and I have friends who prefer smoothed out images colors that are pushed to the max etc and I cringe it is just scary how many watch films on their TV settings. That being said Plasma is NOT for everyone. I love my TV but I have co workers and friends I tell them it isn't for you. Really great plasma sets are to me reference quality HD at their finest. (I typed this on my phone forgive typing errors etc)
 

cineMANIAC

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So I finally upgraded my TV. Went to Best Buy after work, plunked down the cash and walked off with a smile. I'm going from a 50" Panasonic 720p Plasma to a 1080p 60" Samsung (PN60F5300) Plasma. Probably got one of the last plasma sets they'll ever make so I'm happy as heck and I only paid $800. I'm not sure what I should be happiest about - the slightly larger screen or the extra 360 lines of resolution. How much of a difference in picture quality should I expect. Am I going to be like, "oh, that looks nice" or "wow, that's awesome"?
 

Worth

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cineMANIAC said:
So I finally upgraded my TV. Went to Best Buy after work, plunked down the cash and walked off with a smile. I'm going from a 50" Panasonic 720p Plasma to a 1080p 60" Samsung (PN60F5300) Plasma. Probably got one of the last plasma sets they'll ever make so I'm happy as heck and I only paid $800. I'm not sure what I should be happiest about - the slightly larger screen or the extra 360 lines of resolution. How much of a difference in picture quality should I expect. Am I going to be like, "oh, that looks nice" or "wow, that's awesome"?
The increase in size will make a much bigger difference than the increase in resolution. I can see a difference between 720p and 1080p, but it's pretty subtle, and even less noticeable on film sources than video. The law of diminishing returns kicks in pretty hard after 720p - there's a huge difference between 480p and 720p, but much less so between 720 and 1080.
 

FoxyMulder

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cineMANIAC said:
So I finally upgraded my TV. Went to Best Buy after work, plunked down the cash and walked off with a smile. I'm going from a 50" Panasonic 720p Plasma to a 1080p 60" Samsung (PN60F5300) Plasma. Probably got one of the last plasma sets they'll ever make so I'm happy as heck and I only paid $800. I'm not sure what I should be happiest about - the slightly larger screen or the extra 360 lines of resolution. How much of a difference in picture quality should I expect. Am I going to be like, "oh, that looks nice" or "wow, that's awesome"?
It should look good but bear in mind these cheaper Samsungs are using pentile display tech, not an RGB stripe display, this means if you sit closely you may see a honeycomb look, pentile displays use less sub pixels and less power consumption, technically speaking it's not full 1080p, i believe 1080p vertical has been used by Samsung in their own descriptions of pentile sets, you should still enjoy it but in order to get the price down they are not using the traditional plasma methods here.
 

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This may have been mentioned already in a thread I haven't time to read through, but apparently Samsung is also discontinuing the manufacture of plasma as of November. That's it. Game over. Hopefully there will be a few sets still available when my Panny bites the dust.
 

cineMANIAC

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FoxyMulder said:
It should look good but bear in mind these cheaper Samsungs are using pentile display tech, not an RGB stripe display, this means if you sit closely you may see a honeycomb look, pentile displays use less sub pixels and less power consumption, technically speaking it's not full 1080p, i believe 1080p vertical has been used by Samsung in their own descriptions of pentile sets, you should still enjoy it but in order to get the price down they are not using the traditional plasma methods here.

This kind of throws a damper on my enthusiasm a bit but thanks for the heads up. I've heard about the honeycomb pattern but didn't know this particular set has this "issue". I do sit fairly close to TVs - always have - so now I'm thinking this will become a problem. Bummer about it not really being full 1080p. Oh, well - this will do until my next upgrade :)
 

RolandL

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I was a commissoned salesman back in 2010 and 2011 and sold many TV's. Although we had many Plasmas on display, most of the customers wanted an LCD TV. The problems with Plasma that customers did not like were the reflective glass screen, worry about burn in, thicker and heaver than an LCD and dull picture. No matter how much you turned up the contrast and/or brightness, the picture looked duller compared to an LCD. I'm not agreeing with them, just giving you the customers perspective.
 

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