Need help with sub choice

Discussion in 'Home Theater Projects' started by Chris Gunn, Nov 19, 2004.

  1. Chris Gunn

    Chris Gunn Extra

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    First off I would like to say hello to all this is my first post. I have looking around for about 2 weeks now. It is almost winter now so I am working on my HT so I have something to do for the winter.

    Here is what I have now

    Mitsubishi WS-55315 55" Projection TV
    Yamaha htr-5760 receiver
    Yamaha NS-6490 bookshelf speakers for surrounds,Center & Back
    Cerwin Vega VS-120 fronts
    and a JBL PSW-D112 (Amp dose not work)


    What I am doing now is I have just bypassed the Amp in the JBL sub because I got it off of e-bay last winter knowing it had a bad amp. The amp that was in there was a 250watt RMS. I am using a old Technics SA-AX540 receiver to power the amp (Bridge front channel) Seems to be working GREAT! For movies but not so good for music. I have put a order in for a QSC RMX850 pro AMP and should have it Monday.


    Here is the first Question that I have.

    When I play music with the JBL sub it is just kinda muddy now I am not sure how much power I am putting into it but the receiver I am using it on is rated at 100 watts RMS per channel I am bridging it so I think it should be about 200?? The JBL sub is 8ohm. I did use Avia and did a test on the sub and she work nice all the way down to 20 I must say WOW have never felt that before....lol Now would anybody know if I put that QSC RMX850 on that JBL if that would help it not be so muddy when playing music? I Like to play my music loud at times so bass output is very important to me. That is why I have my Cerwin Vegas up front but with the Yamaha 5760 I can't get the bass output I could before with my old receiver so I need to use a Sub.


    I have been looking at the Adire DPL12 with the PR15 I would use the sealed box plans for that sub from Acoustic Visions website How would that work for bass output and SLP's? I would use the QSC amp for just the sub too much amp? I am open for any other subs that would work for me the room it would go in is 14' 7" x 12' open into a dinning room that is 13' 4" x 12' 3" both rooms have 8' 6" ceilings. I plan on building my own box as long as I have plans to use. I would like to spend about $200 on just a sub.

    Would i 15" work better for me maybe a 18" I dunno this is why I need some help....lol

    P.S. Box size in not a problem.

    Any input here would be great!

    Thanks!
     
  2. Dean-P

    Dean-P Stunt Coordinator

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    Here see this thread...should be what you are looking for!
    link
     
  3. Chris Gunn

    Chris Gunn Extra

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    Were would I get the tub stuff from? Would a normal box work good too? If so were could a get some blueprints for one. I was looking at that thing and I must say WOW! It is in my price range and that makes it all the more (I HAVE TO HAVE IT!) I will be giving it 830watts with that QSC RMX850 amp. Sorry if my questions seem dumb but I am new to home Subs!

    You are talking about the BluePrint 1503 Right?.....lol

    Thanks!
     
  4. Kyle Richardson

    Kyle Richardson Screenwriter

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    With any sub you can build a sonotube or a traditional box sub. The main differences are that a tube sub will be lighter and quicker to build as you will just have to cut endcaps for it. A box sub will usually take a bit longer to build but you can shape it exactly the way you want for aesthetic reasons.

    Sonotube can be found at any concrete specialty business in the diameters required. Usually standard hardware stores will not have the larger diameters required for a sub of that size.
     
  5. Chris Gunn

    Chris Gunn Extra

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    Thanks for the input Kyle!

    Is there a different sub that you sell that will give me the performance that I am looking for? I am going to go with the sonotube!

    Will a 12" make me happy?

    Like I said I like to listen to my Music loud at times and I don't want the bass to fall on it's face if ya know what I mean.....lol


    I ordered the Amp from you on Wednesday so that's what I will be using on whatever sub I decide to get. I just want to make sure that what sub I get will make me happy! and at the same time be a good price.

    Again Thanks for helping!
     
  6. Kyle Richardson

    Kyle Richardson Screenwriter

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    With the room dimensions you listed in your original post and the fact that you just said you like to listen to it "loud" leads me to believe that a 15" will suit you better, but everybody's definition of "loud" is different so it's hard to say for sure.
    Also, if the box is designed correctly and a quality driver is used then a 15" will be just as "musical" as a 10" or 12".

    As far as particular drivers I offer, you'd better contact me via e-mail so product promotions arent done on the board by the dealer (against the rules).
     
  7. Chris Gunn

    Chris Gunn Extra

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    Here is a update. I ordered the blueprint 1503. I'm going to put it in a sonotube using the link that Dean gave me (THANKS DEAN!) With 830 watts of power going to this mother WOW! I can't wait!

    Also want to give a special thanks to Kyle! [​IMG] You know what costumer service is all about!


    Now were do I get 6" AeroPort Flares???
     
  8. Kyle Richardson

    Kyle Richardson Screenwriter

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    You probably wont find the 6" Aeroport flares any longer[​IMG] The best thing to do is to take a large roundover bit to the endcap in order to round over the port opening and position the PVC on the inside of the opening to create the vent.
     
  9. Shawn Solar

    Shawn Solar Supporting Actor

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    I've had both a 1503 ported tuned to 19hz and now 22hz. Using the 6" flares in both cases resulted in port noise. Was it audible during music and movie playback? no it wasn't but is still present when driving sinewave and probably if you pushed it really loud and low[​IMG] It was a lot more noticeable when close to the subwoofer but as long as its about 6ft or more away from you you should be fine. Just to let you know if I could I would probably just save up for PRs.
     
  10. ThomasW

    ThomasW Cinematographer

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    Interesting because I built several high excursion designs using the now extinct 6" flares, and had no chuffing with test tones at literally house shaking levels. All those designs were tuned to ~18Hz.

    My experience with PR's is that the sound quality always suffers when they're used. They 'ring' and have 'over-shoot', that tends to smear the transients. They're certainly the only option if one needs/wants the smallest box possible.


    Chris G,

    If you're going to copy Pete's design (actually a design I created for my friend Pete) note that the PVC port tube used is actually 5.75" ID (that's what fit the AeroPort Flares). Using PVC with 6" ID means a longer port.
     
  11. Chris Gunn

    Chris Gunn Extra

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    So you are saying go with 5.75 and round out the end cap like Kyle said? Is there other options I could use? Like I said box size is not really a issue. I wanted to try and keep Pete's (Thomas's) Design as close as I can anyway.
     
  12. ThomasW

    ThomasW Cinematographer

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    That design is optimized for high excursion woofers. Most people would consider the design 'overported'. I suppose you could use a bunch of 4" flared ports or grab some 8" dia material (= much bigger box to accommodate the port size). Not really sure how much benefit that would provide.
     
  13. Shawn Solar

    Shawn Solar Supporting Actor

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    ThomasW,

    My tube is about 5cuft(little less) tuned to 22hz. Its a little small. It was tuned to 18-19hz but my room doesn't really support 20-25hz do to a deep null so I tuned a little higher to see what it would do to ouput. Maybe your box building skills are better than mine or something cause it does chuff with sinewaves for sure. but that is at room shaking output like you descibe.

    I've never really heard too much critisizm regarding PRs sound quality vs porting, then again I've yet to try them myself. Is it night and day difference to a ported system? or are you picky cause you're spoiled with dipole bass[​IMG]
     
  14. ThomasW

    ThomasW Cinematographer

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    I've never liked what PR's do to the sound quality. And yes I've very picky about the sound quality of my bass.

    When the Stryke HE-15 PR cube sub was developed we built one. Nothing we did could get it to sound good. We made a new ported box with the HE-15 and it was night and day difference as far as I was concerned.

    I've lost the link, but there was a very interesting website that had impulse testing of a PR based sub using the Peerless XLS driver. It was quite interesting to see how long the PR continued to move after it received the test burst. That's what 'smears' the transients and decreases the sound quality.

    So my take on PR's is that if one needs the smallest box possible then they're one way to go. If one has space for a ported box or can afford a sealed box and LT circuit, they're a better choice.
     
  15. Chris Gunn

    Chris Gunn Extra

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    Well I finally got my 20" sono tube in from menards took forever ordered it on 11/20....But anyway now I am ready to get going on this thing but I am have a hard time trying to figure things out.... I have winisd but I don't think I am using it right here is what I hope I can get some help on.....


    I am using a 20" tube. I would like to tune it to 20hz. I'm going to use 3/4 inch MDF stacked to 1.5in thick, Now here are my questions....


    - How long do I cut the tube to?

    - Using a 6" PVC pipe how long should that be cut to? (Going to port from the top)

    Any help here would be great!
     
  16. ThomasW

    ThomasW Cinematographer

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    Tune it lower around 18Hz.

    Copy ALL the specifics in the design I built for Pete. You won't find any 6" flares so just make the port 29.5" long.

    NOTE: this is with a PVC pipe that has in internal dimension of 5.75" (this is a green sewer pipe). If you go with 6" ID material the port size and enclosure size change.
    The easiest and most accurate way to cut the tube is make and intall the one endcap set back from the cut edge of the tube. Either tack it in place temporarily with some little brads or permanently attach it. Make sure it's absolutely square/perpendicular to the sides of the tube. Then use your router with a flush trim bit to cut the tube flush with that endcap. Repeat the proceedure for the other end.
     
  17. Chris Gunn

    Chris Gunn Extra

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    Thanks Thomas!

    The only thing is is that I don't know if I am going to find the Green tube at menards. I never did check for it I just checked for the 6" PVC (White) stuff. If I go with the White stuff you have any ideas as to what sizes I should go with for the tube or port? Should I just make the port longer or the tube or both?

    Thanks for the help! This stuff has me lost!.....lol
     
  18. ThomasW

    ThomasW Cinematographer

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  19. Chris Gunn

    Chris Gunn Extra

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    Here is what I have come up with tell me if this sounds right er not......


    Cut the tube to 43in with the end caps 1.5in on both ends that would give me a inside size of 40in. Volume of that would be 205.925L that into sq.ft is 7.27sq.ft tuning fq. of 18.4hz with a 6"port 26.57in round that to 26.5in.

    Dose that all sound right?
     
  20. ThomasW

    ThomasW Cinematographer

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    You shouldn't target a tuning of 18.4Hz. Target 18Hz. There are variables that influence any design. I targeted 18Hz and ended up with measured 18.4Hz tuning for Pete's tube.
     

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