Disney+ Black Widow (2021) (1 Viewer)

[holtge]

I guess we'll find out sometime in 2020/2021.

 

[JimmyO]

I would be very interested to see an R rated and PG rated version running concurrently, and see how that pans out. Is there any historical precedent for such an experiment?

Of course it goes without saying the story would be the same, all of the major details would be the same. One would just have more cowbell than the other.

 

[Josh Steinberg]

I would be very interested to see an R rated and PG rated version running concurrently, and see how that pans out. Is there any historical precedent for such an experiment?

The MPAA does not allow for two versions of the same film to be released theatrically at the same time. Disney would not be allowed to do this; if Disney attempted to, they would be heavily sanctioned by the MPAA including (but not limited to) the loss of rating privileges across the board. Since most commercial theaters won't play films that haven't been rated by the MPAA, and since most television stations and newspapers won't accepted advertisements for films that haven't been rated by the MPAA, and especially since Disney's whole brand is being family friendly (which requires having family friendly ratings), this would effectively be the kiss of death for Disney's business. In other words, don't expect them to even entertain the idea of trying it.

IFC Films recently tried to do this with Lars Von Trier's latest film, The House That Jack Built. The film is said to be exceedingly violent, and Von Trier's director's cut was far too violent to receive an "R" rating. Von Trier and IFC Films did make an edited version which was resubmitted and did receive an "R" rating. However, IFC planned to do two almost simultaneous releases, with a "one night only" event featuring the unrated director's cut, to be followed by a wider release of the "R" rated version. But because these screenings were scheduled to be held within a week from each other, the MPAA balked at this, and IFC was ultimately forced to cancel the unrated director's cut showing. The issue was that the two different versions of the same film were not allowed to be releases simultaneously or almost simultaneously. There is supposed to be either a 90 day or a 6 month wait, I forget which it was. IFC Films had to be back down because they could not afford the penalty of losing their ability to submit films for ratings, which would have made it impossible for them to distribute many of their future releases.

As for whether it's been done before, in the late 70s, after Saturday Night Fever's R-rated release proved to be a massive hit, the film was then re-edited and re-released with a PG rating. However, the R version had already left theaters by this point, which is why Paramount was able to release a different version.

 

[JimmyO]

VERY interesting - thanks for that Josh. Fascinating! I had no idea something like that could be a barrier.

So, in essence, they couldn't release them simultaneously. But it wouldn't preclude the possibility of an R rated release happening later, OR as a home video/streaming option.

 

[Josh Steinberg]

VERY interesting - thanks for that Josh. Fascinating! I had no idea something like that could be a barrier.

So, in essence, they couldn't release them simultaneously. But it wouldn't preclude the possibility of an R rated release happening later, OR as a home video/streaming option.

Exactly! There's absolutely nothing to prevent Disney from releasing two different versions for the home market.

I think the only thing that would prevent it is that Marvel Studios, to date, hasn't seemed very enthusiastic about the possibility of doing extended editions. For better or worse, they seem to feel that the theatrical release is the final word on their films. I remember when Avengers: Age Of Ultron was being released to theaters, writer/director Joss Whedon spoke repeatedly about his intention to release an extended director's cut with the home video release, and that was spoken about for a while... until the disc was announced and no mention was made of an extended cut. In follow-up comments, Whedon demurred and said that the theatrical version was his director's cut, and that he was too exhausted to go back and make an extended version. And yet, that's exactly what he had said was the plan for months before. So did he lose interest? Maybe. But I think it's equally possible that the studio had no interest.

The whole Marvel Cinematic Universe is built on shared continuity and I wonder if they see extended versions as being an unnecessary complication to that. If you include a scene in an extended version that's different than the theatrical version, which version of events is canon for the next film? What if a plot point necessary to a future film is only disclosed in an extended version? What if a future film has an idea that fits in perfectly with a theatrical version, but would be contradicted by a scene in an extended version that less of the audience has seen? I wonder if they're just trying to avoid those possibilities. It's one thing to included deleted scenes on a disc where the producers can quite reasonably say, "It's not actually in the movie, so it doesn't actually count as part of the story," but it gets more complicated if there are different versions of the movie that have different content.

All speculation on my part, but I suspect that may be part of the reason Marvel hasn't done extended versions to date.

 

[JimmyO]

With respect to a Black Widow R rated version, I am sure that it could be done without adding any additional scenes that would have an impact on story or plot.

In the context of a superhero movie, I'm reminded of Wonder Woman when she is alone with Trevor in the village the night before they set out to find Ludendorf. We are given a hint of what happened there, but just a hint. An R rated version could extend that a bit, and I'm not even talking about gratuitous nudity or sex. Little things here and there.

I realize it's not Marvel's current jam, but I do predict that as this phase ends and a new one begins, they are going to have to work extra hard to create new and interesting hooks. At this exact moment in time I'm not terribly interested in what happens after Endgame.

 

[Sam Favate]

Marvel is in the business of making billion dollar grossing tentpoles. They’re not going to release a film that cuts off a large portion of their existing audience. It would be one thing for them to continue allowing for R-rated Deadpool films after they control Fox; it’s another thing entirely for them to take a PG-13 character from a PG-13 franchise and put that character into an R rated film. Extremely unlikely to happen, particularly with the shared continuity. Marvel won’t make an “R” rated movie that the audience needs to see in order to follow their next “PG-13” movie.

That would be my thinking as well, and I want this analysis to be correct. But the site I linked to did not report this rumor two weeks ago when other sites were picking it up. That they reported it now, with one of their sources (which have historically proved very good) backing it, leads me to believe it has some truth to it.

I know that, personally, it would be a huge disappointment for my household. My kids (both age 10) love the MCU films and have seen them all. I couldn't in good conscience take 10-year-olds to an R-rated movie, meaning that A) they'd miss out on the next Marvel film, which they look forward to tremendously, B) they'd miss a movie that focuses on one of their very favorite characters, and C) I'd lose my Marvel movie-going companions, making the experience less fun for me too.

Comic book movies can be both sophisticated to appeal to adults and true enough to the source material (comic books!) for children to enjoy. Marvel's built the most successful franchise ever on those grounds (and let's not forget Black Panther's 7 Oscar nominations, including Best Picture). The films don't need an excess of profanity, violence or sex to give them an R-rating. Take DC Universe's show The Titans, which is a fine show; entertaining and even true to the source material to a point, but it is so violent and uses so much profanity that it's not for viewers under 18. And the violence, sex, and profanity isn't necessary. It actually takes you out of the show when you hear it, because I think "Wow, The Teen Titans never sounded like this!"

Deadpool's fine for what it is. I've seen those movies and enjoyed them. They don't connect, IMO, the way the MCU does. Deadpool (the character) has an R-rated schtick and that's why those films are so rated.

 

[Josh Steinberg]

That would be my thinking as well, and I want this analysis to be correct. But the site I linked to did not report this rumor two weeks ago when other sites were picking it up. That they reported it now, with one of their sources (which have historically proved very good) backing it, leads me to believe it has some truth to it.

I think it may be possible that they had a discussion about the rating. They’d be foolish not to, given the box office success of R-rated superhero films like Deadpool and Logan. It doesn’t mean they’ll do it, but I can see the logic in the studio execs taking a look at the possibility. But looking at all possible release strategies is very different than actually going through with an R rated release. I’m not shocked that they’d look at an R option, I would be shocked if they landed there, though. I think they’d like some of that Wonder Woman money and an R rating probably takes away too many of the potential audience members they need to get the grosses they want.

Call me crazy, but done right, a Black Widow movie has enormous box office potential. In theory, they could hold on to most of the Avengers-audience and add people who weren’t as interested in superhero movies in general but have interest in supporting films that have strong female leads. If they want to make that kind of movie that can appeal to everyone and they do it well, this could be Black Panther-style huge.

 

[Sam Favate]

Black Widow will not be rated R, Kevin Feige says.

https://comicbook.com/marvel/2019/02/22/black-widow-r-rating-kevin-feige/

"It never was going to be," Feige said. "Somebody writes, 'I hear it's R-rated!' And then everybody writes it up." As it turns out, the rumor was never anything more than just that.

Glad to hear this.

 

[Jake Lipson]

Good.

I still don't believe they will make an R-rated film within the MCU.

They will probably let Fox continue to make R-rated Deadpool movies that go out under the Fox banner, but I think their best move is to keep the established PG-13 MCU brand relatively family-friendly.

 

[Sam Favate]

Emma Watson being considered for one of the lead roles in Black Widow.

https://screenrant.com/black-widow-...Ks1JCO21p_PzLB4Dg4pnEu62nSfYl6IxpIjsJ7JIghH3Y

I guess we'll know more about the cast pretty soon, since it is supposed to start filming this spring.

 

[Jake Lipson]

Emma Watson

I'd watch that.

Well I'll watch Black Widow anyway, but I'm a big fan of her, so that would be a nice bonus.

Plus, we know she has a good working relationship with Disney from Beauty and the Beast, and Alan Horn's ties with her go back further to his Warner Bros.. days when she was Hermione.

I guess we'll know more about the cast pretty soon, since it is supposed to start filming this spring.

Hmm. If they're filming in the spring, we'll have to find some things out, but Feige has recently said that they're not going to talk about future films until after Endgame and Far From Home. I suspect them to reveal their upcoming slate (at least the next couple of years) at either Comic-Con or D23. But if it's filming before then...are they going to try to pretend like it's not?

 

[Jake Lipson]

Florence Pugh is in talks to join the cast. If the article @Sam Favate linked in post #51 is accurate, this is the same role that Emma Watson was in consideration for, which probably means Watson isn't doing the film.

https://deadline.com/2019/03/floren...son-marvel-studios-cate-shortland-1202577911/

 

[Sam Favate]

According to Disney Insider, Pugh has the role.

Florence Pugh Joins Marvel Studios Standalone ‘Black Widow’ Movie

https://thedisinsider.com/2019/03/19/florence-pugh-black-widow/

 

[Adam Lenhardt]

The rumor is that this is set pre-Iron Man 2. The events of Iron Man 2, per the Marvel Cinematic Universe timeline, took place in 2011. Scarlett Johansson was 24 when Iron Man 2 started shooting in April 2009; she is 34 now. Florence Pugh is 23 now, a year younger than Johansson was when she shot Iron Man 2 but over a decade younger than Johansson is now.

It raises the interesting question: is Pugh's character supposed to be the same age as Natasha Romanoff in Black Widow?

Johansson has aged really well, so I could easily suspend my disbelief if I'm asked to buy that she's playing Natasha in her early twenties. Captain America: The Winter Soldier confirmed that Natasha was born in 1984, just like Johansson, so she was actually playing a few years older than her real age in Iron Man 2. Therefore, a movie with a 23-year-old Natasha would be set around 2007, about three years before the first Iron Man.

But the suspension of disbelief is harder if you've got a woman in her mid-thirties playing 23 opposite a 23-year-old woman playing 23. The obvious choice if they're supposed to be contemporaries is to cast older for the second lead to balance things out, much like how all of the high school students on "Beverly Hills 90201" were about 30.

The fact that they didn't go that route makes me wonder if this is going to the first MCU movie to take the de-aging effect and apply it to the title character for the bulk of the run time. Nick Fury in Captain Marvel was a strong proof of concept, and they shaved 25 years off his age, while they'd only need to shave 11 years off her age.

What would be interesting is if it intercut between two time periods, with half of the movie set post-Endgame with them aging Pugh up using makeup, and half of the movie is set pre-Iron Man with them deaging Johansson using Lola.

 

[JimmyO]

I have no facts to back this up, but my instinct tells me that de-aging for a woman (especially one with a very distinctive look) is a more difficult task when compared to a man.

It doesn't help that attractive female actresses are scrutinized under the proverbial microscope every single year.

 

[Sam Favate]

David Harbour, of Stranger Things and the new Hellboy, has joined the cast of Black Widow. No word on who he is playing. Perhaps Ivan?

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/h...-joins-scarlett-johansson-black-widow-1198884


Also, Rachel Weisz is in talks for a "key role" in the movie, according to Variety.

https://variety.com/2019/film/news/rachel-weisz-black-widow-marvel-scarlett-johansson-1203177636/

 

[Sam Favate]

Last night on Jimmy Kimmel, Scarlett Johansson was asked when Black Widow starts filming. She said nothing, just "oh, those are just words." She's clearly not allowed to talk about it yet. She was on with the cast of Avengers and they all had a laugh about how they can't talk about things that everyone else is talking about.

It's said to start filming this month or next.

 

[Sam Favate]

The latest rumor is that the film takes place after Captain America: Civil War, according to a convention appearance by Sebastian Stan in Italy. No idea if this is true, although it seems more plausible than the suggestion it would take place in 1999 (when Natasha would have been 16).

https://mcuexchange.com/rumor-black...D0heM2lTJPWiA27jLOUafje6GrrvRBBcseLlgkpJK515s

 

[Jake Lipson]

The latest rumor is that the film takes place after Captain America: Civil War

This project feels especially awkward to me in a post-Endgame world. It would have made more sense to me if Endgame had ended differently.

If this were situated prior to Iron Man 2, that at least would give them more of an opportunity to show us something we haven't seen before. If it is situated in between Civil War and Infinity War, that sort of boxes them in in terms of what they can do. It would have to be when she is on the run. Also, wouldn't she have to be in contact with Steve and the other fugitives during that time period? It would be kind of weird if it's in that time period but Evans isn't there.

Obviously, I'm going to see it no matter what, but when it was first announced I expected it would be a bridge from Endgame to whatever happens next. Now, it feels more like an afterthought.