Lost: Season Six (2 Viewers)

[Holadem]

Originally Posted by Josh Dial


What a terrible (it's blog, so that's par for the course) write-up. This author *clearly* doesn't understand the show, or how imagery or symbolism work within a piece of fiction. I picture an individual sitting on their counch, slamming their face full of popcorn while the flickering images on their television entertain them for an hour each week.

LOL. Well, given that I posted this because I entirely agree with it, I suppose the above necessarily refers to me as well. In the interest civility, I will simply say that it is great that you have all the answers, Josh.


--

H

 

[mattCR]

Originally Posted by Holadem

Sorry Matt, but you're wrong. I mean, believe what you want, but it is a massive and pointless reach.


--

H

*shrug* I don't know, I find it ridiculous that everyone else is reaching to not see it that way, when the final shot was of the island with no encampments, no sign of any settlements that they had ever been there, a long shot of exploded plane all over the beach. I just kind of feel as though the contrary opinion is the one that doesn't see it that way And I don't see how anything that Christian says does anything but put weight behind that argument...

 

[SteveEasley]

Why I believe the island reality was real (and the flash sideways reality was purgatory).

1) The scene in the finale where Hurley tells Ben you were a great #2, and Ben tells him he was a great #1. That makes it sound like they spent some amount of time in that role.

2) The scene in the finale where Jack is laying beside Vincent and the airplane flies overhead. I am taking that as a hint from the director's that they (Sawyer, Kate, Claire, ...) really did escape.

3) HUGE - Jack's dad Christian made the comment at the very end that there is no concept of "now" in the death realm that they were in. To me that would allow for the greatest untold part of the story, that the remaining survivors lived out there lives after Jack gave up his in the cave. Without the concept of "now", the reunion in the church makes perfect sense, even with people dying at different times in their future lives.


4) #3 would explain Desmond and Penny's presence at the church at the end. I take it to mean they lived out their lives (along with the other survivors Sawyer, Kate, Claire, ...). Because time has no meaning in death as Christian said, it is not surprising they are at the reunion.


In my mind, Christian's comment about time is one of the biggest clues to the interpretation of the ending.

 

[Cory S.]

Josh,


The island wasn't purgatory; it's where they truly started living...


That basically sums up what the Island was on this show...

 

[Tim Gerdes]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mattCR

I find it ridiculous that everyone else is reaching to not see it that way, when the final shot was of the island with no encampments, no sign of any settlements that they had ever been there, a long shot of exploded plane all over the beach.

You can clearly see the season 1 encampments with blue tarp roofs in at least one of these shots?!?


I don't think the final shots had anything at all to do with the show. It was merely some footage of the now vacant set. It had nothing at all do to with the story's narrative.


The story ended when Jack closed his eye, fade to black and then the word lost appeared.

 

[Nelson Au]

Okay, well done finale. I think I got it the first time, but I have to think about it more. But in a nutshell, they didn't die on the island. The flash sideways was the afterlife leading to the next level.


I've read most of the comments about the finale and they helped me form some thoughts. But I have to say, I wasn't as emotionally moved by the ending as some of you. And I watched every episode, except I missed pt1 of S6. I think why it didn't hit me as hard is that at the risk of violating a forum rule, I never had any religious upbringing. I only know what I see and hear in media. I never went to church. So I had to look up Christian Shepard. I knew that had meaning when Kate said it. It never occurred to me that the name would mean that! And I had to look up purgatory, I didn't really exactly know what it meant. So for me, some of the symbolism is lost.


And the title Lost makes a lot more sense to me now on so many levels. I rewatched the last scenes this morning on the DVR. From the point Jack walks into the church to greet everyone. And I see now upon reviewing it, to see Jack as he is dying and walking into the bamboo area and then dies intercut with the shots in the church. Jesus, as I now interpret Christian is leading his flock into the afterlife. (Flocke?) Timed very nicely to when Jack closes his eyes.


Everything else is a MacGuffin, what matters is the experiences these people have on the island pulled them together.


As I get older, I get more curious about the Bible and the stories and people in it. And I learn more about it over time. So I'm sure in the future the series will make more sense. But on the simplest and basic terms, I got it.


I will say, upon reviewing the ending shots this morning was more moving to me then last night. There was a lot to take in as I was trying very hard to figure out what the deal was with replacing the cork in the bottle. But now it doesn't matter.


I am now more interested then before to buy the series set.

 

[mattCR]

Originally Posted by EricW


so to understand your theory, did Penny also die in the real world and then was introduced to this purgatory, or was she a construct of Desmond who died on the Island? or was Desmond a construct as well?


i thought it would have been interesting if MiB was allowed to leave after losing his powers.


Ben wanted to stay because he still liked Rousseau or was she in the church?


what was the plane flying overhead in the last shot? i'm guessing it was a flashback to the limbo-815 as it flew over the Island in the season 6 premiere?

Yes, Penny, Rousseau.. all of them died in different ways, however, they were all brought there, this was purgatory for them. Desmond needed to believe he was needed; he never felt as though he lived up to his role. He was "needed" to push the button or bad things would happen. He was "needed" to stop the end, but once he solved his need to be needed, he could let go and move on.. who knows how long he had really been there, even he lost count, it could have been decades. And Penny could have died whenever, when he was ready to join her, he was ready to join her. And once he did, he was "awake" in the afterlife, which is why he had no problem voyaging back to try and get them to recognize they should move on to the afterlife as well. He was able to reclaim a love long lost once he accepted.


I love the assertion that "you're just wrong" um, no. Anyone could be wrong. The show ended in such a way that it is open for debate. And I find plenty more direct evidence that backs my thought then the other side (and I'm not alone, quite a few others see it this way as well).


I don't view your opinion as "wrong" just a different way to look at it. I just don't see it that way.

 

[TonyD]

I think there are a few people here saying "I'm right and if you don't see it this way you're just not getting it."

Well this series is still open to personal interpretation even after this last show has now aired.


I am still not sure how I want to interpret the series.


There seems to me that it would be they all died in the crash and the show as everyone's journey to the next plane, but the bulk of the show was focused on Jack's journey.

The people who were met that weren't on the plane were people that Jack had met, maybe just in passing, during his living life and he incorporated them into this "Limbo" life.


I still need to figure out how the Island "life" really happened.

What does it represent, what was the monster and many other things, what were their reasons.


time to go back and glance through the season 1 thread again.

 

[Arild]

Originally Posted by Hugh Jackes

Okay, Josh...the situation with why babies can't be born on the island?

Caused by Jughead / the Incident.

 

[Dave Mack]

"Well [the theory] that I like, and the one that everyone was talking about a while to me, is the purgatory one, and though that's not what it is, it is such a great idea ... But that isn't literally what [the island] is."


Once again, here is abrams himself saying while the idea of the island being "purgatory" is a great idea, that's NOT what it is. I'll go with him....

 

[Jeffery_H]

Originally Posted by ScottH

My random thoughts on the finale and series as a whole...


Really enjoyed the journey...the end game was pretty underwhelming, but I was prepared for that.


My immediate reaction was that they all died in the original crash, but after playing back Christian's conversation and thinking about it more, I think it's pretty obvious what most are saying about the off-island stuff being a purgatory of sorts holds the most water.


So is it safe to say that by Juliet saying "It worked", all she meant was that it stopped the time flashes, not that it prevented the crash from happening?


So how come if MIB goes into the pit he comes out smoke monster, but not Jack? (Or even Desmond - although I guess with Desmond you could argue that he had that special ability to resist the electromagnetism.)


And what made Jack and MIB suddenly mortal? Was it Desmond putting the light out? And are we to believe Richard is now a mortal? And if Jack is, how was he able to give Hurley the magic juice to make him like him?


Overall, I really enjoyed the series. Certainly not "one of the best of all time" as some have said, but it's probably one of the better network shows I've seen (but I don't watch much network TV).

The reason why Jack comes out OK as whole and not the brother of Jacob is because of who they were spiritually. Jack was a good person down deep, the island was his test and he passed it, he was let go into the light. When Jacob's brother died, he was filled with hate and evil, thus becoming the Smoke Monster and unable to let go.


What made Jack and MIB mortal at the end I took as having to do with when Desmond removed the plug and the light went out. I thought that everyone then was a mortal and on equal ground. Jacob's brother was unable to transform into the Smoke Monster because he was trapped inside.


Richard became a mortal when Jack took over as the new Jacob. Richard was a person Jacob had given the eternal life to, not Jack, therefore he was let go and returned.


Bet then there is the whole theory of any of this being real too, so there is no REAL answer to some of this.

 

[Josh Dial]

Originally Posted by Cory S.

Okay, Josh...the situation with why babies can't be born on the island?

This one is both simple and complicated.


Children can't be conceived on the Island because that's the way Jacob runs it. It's possible this was the way the Mother Guardian also ran things, but all that matters is that that is how Jacob has made it. Why? A few reasons. First, Jacob draws people to the island, both in an effert to prove his Brother wrong about the nature of humans, and to also find his eventual replacement. Allowing those visitors to blossom into a full-fledged population (making babies and whatnot) would undermine Jacob's second goal.


Jacob wants someone broken, someone desperate for change but can't find it. The Island is the place where change happens: where you get fixed, not broken. Thus, nobody gets to the Island Jacob doesn't allow, babies included. All of the babies born on the Island have been conceived off-Island, and granted access by Jacob before they were born.


The one unknown is Amy (Horace's wife and the mother of Ethan), where we aren't told specifically that she was impregnated off-Island. However, given the fact that we've been shown the rules of giving birth so many times, I think it's safe to say this case was the same.


This rule is actually the impetus for the statue of Taweret. When Egyptians were brought to the island--just as Romans, Vikings, the Spanish, French, Americans, etc.--they noticed the infertility soon after arriving. In response, they created a massive offering to the goddess of fertility in hopes that that would earn her favour. Of course, it was all in vain.

 

[mattCR]

Originally Posted by Dave Mack




"Well [the theory] that I like, and the one that everyone was talking about a while to me, is the purgatory one, and though that's not what it is, it is such a great idea ... But that isn't literally what [the island] is."


Once again, here is abrams himself saying while the idea of the island being "purgatory" is a great idea, that's NOT what it is. I'll go with him....

Yes, JJ says so.. more then 2 years ago, but writing can change a great deal, and they obviously didn't have the series finale written.


Like I said, we will agree to disagree. I understand your viewpoint, I just don't accept it, just as you won't accept mine. Neither are right or wrong.

It's kind of like Lord of the Rings. People can argue about the WWI/WWII overtones. The writer says it had nothing to do with it. I'd say hogwash. Even the writer of a work can not realize how they are being influenced. If you'd ask Shakespeare about much of his work, he'd have a much different opinion of meanings them I'm sure most of us do.


The opinion they had about the potential conclusion 2 years ago in a youtube video isn't necessarily meaningful at all to where they ended up.

 

[TravisR]

Originally Posted by Josh Dial
Children can't be conceived on the Island because that's the way Jacob runs it.

I think that's an interesting theory but it's a big leap to make.

 

[Dave Mack]

Matt, true it can be up to one's opinion but I really don't think as late as 4 years into making the show they suddenly decided, "hey! I got it! NOTHING ever really happened on the Island in reality!"

 

[Jeffery_H]

Originally Posted by Nelson Au

Okay, well done finale. I think I got it the first time, but I have to think about it more. But in a nutshell, they didn't die on the island. The flash sideways was the afterlife leading to the next level.


I've read most of the comments about the finale and they helped me form some thoughts. But I have to say, I wasn't as emotionally moved by the ending as some of you. And I watched every episode, except I missed pt1 of S6. I think why it didn't hit me as hard is that at the risk of violating a forum rule, I never had any religious upbringing. I only know what I see and hear in media. I never went to church. So I had to look up Christian Shepard. I knew that had meaning when Kate said it. It never occurred to me that the name would mean that! And I had to look up purgatory, I didn't really exactly know what it meant. So for me, some of the symbolism is lost.


And the title Lost makes a lot more sense to me now on so many levels. I rewatched the last scenes this morning on the DVR. From the point Jack walks into the church to greet everyone. And I see now upon reviewing it, to see Jack as he is dying and walking into the bamboo area and then dies intercut with the shots in the church. Jesus, as I now interpret Christian is leading his flock into the afterlife. (Flocke?) Timed very nicely to when Jack closes his eyes.


Everything else is a MacGuffin, what matters is the experiences these people have on the island pulled them together.


As I get older, I get more curious about the Bible and the stories and people in it. And I learn more about it over time. So I'm sure in the future the series will make more sense. But on the simplest and basic terms, I got it.


I will say, upon reviewing the ending shots this morning was more moving to me then last night. There was a lot to take in as I was trying very hard to figure out what the deal was with replacing the cork in the bottle. But now it doesn't matter.


I am now more interested then before to buy the series set.

Well, I sure don't want to violate the forum rules, but it is the show construct and hard not too given the source material.


In any case, I read your post and wanted to say that as very much a Christian and religious person myself that I sincerely hope that you continue your search to find your meaning and truly hope it may be something you turn to. Since you said in your post "As I get older, I get more curious about the Bible and the stories and people in it." that is why I said that and also as a Christian hope to save others too. I think if you are religious like me, the show will have an even much deeper meaning and you will be even more impressed.


If you ever want to talk about anything, just send me a PM here. I won't mention this again, but hope you take my post as it was meant to you as a message of hope and peace. Best wishes in your journey.

 

[Arild]

Okay, one more time: The Island is not purgatory. It was real. This is certain, not open to interpretation. You're not thinking it through in light of the whole series.


People have left the Island and returned to it. People have left the Island and not come back. People off the Island have learned about it without going there. People off the Island have learned about it and gone there. People have died on the Island and reappeared as ghosts. People have died on the Island and not reappeared as ghosts. People have died on the Island and not passed to the flash sideways. People have been born on the Island. People have been conceived on the Island. And if the Island is purgatory, then what was the sideways universe? Another purgatory? And why did most of the 815 passengers die in the crash? On top of that, we were flat-out told that their experiences were real. We were also told that the period of Jack's life that was most important to him was the time he spent with these people. If the Island is purgatory, then he never actually knew any of them when he was alive.


No. They did not die in the crash. The Island is not purgatory, everything but the flash-sideways was real, real, real and that is the only way it makes even a lick of sense.

 

[Cory S.]

Josh,


Good answer....

 

[mattCR]

Originally Posted by Dave Mack

Matt, true it can be up to one's opinion but I really don't think as late as 4 years into making the show they suddenly decided, "hey! I got it! NOTHING ever really happened on the Island in reality!"

I don't understand why it matters if anything on the island happened "In reality" It happened to them, for real, as part of their journey to the afterlife. Whether it happened in the reality of the living or not is kind of a pointless matter. Who does it matter to at all except for those that ended up in the afterlife? Kind of a lady and the tiger situation.

 

[Dave Mack]

just watched the final scene again and the first thing Jack sees when he touches his father's coffin is his "death scene" on the island, lying down on the ground looking up at the sky. This is where he finally "remembers" all that happened. If he really didn't die then but years before in the crash this would make no sense. That implies like a "Double" purgatory. One would be all the events on the island and two would be the alternate reality. That's just too silly if you ask me... Wouldn't he remember his actual death in the plane crash?




and if they are as filmmakers trying to relay your theory they did an absolute crap job. Because then everything they say, show at the end with Christian telling Jack what happened makes no sense. All the emphasis is on Jack dying on the Island after having saved it and watching the other plane with Kate and company flying off.