Lost: Season Six (1 Viewer)

[Holadem]

Originally Posted by DaveF

What dismays me, besides thinking the the closing moments were a complete waste of time, is the emotional dismay under the idea: After you die, you live another mediocre, emotionally damaged life until you can really pass on? How is that comforting?


Worse, someone like Kate, who escaped the island, and presumably lived another 60 years, fell in love, got married, had kids of her own, etc....in the end when she dies she must relive the worst months of her life and revisit with the people she spent all of 4 months with. Her closing breaths don't relate to the vast majority of her life?

I hear ya, but I can kinda see it, if you replace "worst months" (years actually, about 3) with "most significant years." Hard to imagine that anything that has happened to her during those 60 years even remotely approaches the experience of being on that Island, as horrible as much of it was. Also, is possible their post-island lives were less than great. There is a form of PTSD that never really goes away.

Also, think Rose, at the end of Titanic. Kinda...


--

H

 

[NeilO]

More thoughts - Desmond (when on the island) clearly did not understand what the Sideways construct was and with him we were led to believe that it was another reality. He thought that he was going to be whisked away to this wonderful alternate life, but it didn't happen and he needed to be sent back by Hurley somehow. I have to admit that I am disappointed that the Sideways construct was a kind of limbo where they needed to learn to "let go." Still, it did fit in.

This makes it seem that the bomb was an integral part of The Incident and perhaps it stopped The Incident from destroying the island for all we know in addition to sending out characters back to their proper time on the island. What happened, happened.


Ben's comment about Jacob not letting people leave the island reinforces what people said about Jacob - he was not all good. He was severely screwed up and responsible for a great deal of the suffering encountered on the island. He still made an effort, but Hurley was going to become a much better keeper of the island than Jacob ever was.

My interpretation of the turning out the light was that once that happened the smoke monster was completely trapped in Locke's body and mortal again. Thus Jack was able to kill him. I guess he did need to be killed so he wouldn't try to put out the light once Jack got it going again.

There was so much emotion in the episode that I had real trouble going to sleep afterward with my head just filled with Lost thoughts.


One question to folk who watched the Jimmy Kimmel special - was it in HD? WJLA in DC did not show it that way.

 

[PaulDA]

There are many different ways to interpret the final episode (I'm still juggling a few) but there is one thing I cannot entertain as even a remote possibility and that is the notion they all died in the initial crash. That makes no sense in any way whatsoever. The characters could not have formed any kind of bond of the type we see in the "sideways reality" because it was their life experiences together that forged those bonds. Not to mention Jack's father explicitly states that events did occur (why would he lie?).

 

[Holadem]

Great article that could have been written by me, as it so perfectly nails what I've been trying to say all along, sometimes words for word. (all emphasis mine) -- What do we want from a story? How do we experience them? A story is infinitely more than a series of narrative points strung together in order; . . . There are the people, the places, and the relationships that give it color and depth. But there’s a flip side to that, or rather, an opposite end on a continuum. One extreme is pure fact; the other is pure emotion. The best stories land somewhere in the middle, creating memorable characters and moving them through a narrative that’s by turns engaging, moving, and ultimately coherent, if not in terms of clarity then at least in terms of unity. Move too far one way, and you sacrifice enjoyable characters in the name of bland recitation of bullet points; too far the other, and you give up telling a good tale just to play with the people in it. This has been the battle “Lost” has been fighting for years, and one that came to a surprising end on Sunday with a finale destined to divide viewers. (It’s certainly divided me.) There were wonderful, sweet, sad moments of reunion and heartbreak as moving as anything the show’s done in its entire run; but there were also large parts of the story elided in favor of finding a type of closure for some of the characters. The episode was designed to hit a series of smart emotional punches based on six years of viewer investment, and it did so flawlessly. But its focus on the group of people on the show, and not the reason they were together, felt ultimately like an insubstantial attempt to cancel out all those wandering plots and unanswered questions and say they never mattered. Yet they did matter. Not because they were more important than the characters, but because they were the reason those characters lived and died they way they did. There’s a beauty to mystery that’s impossible to deny. Sometimes, it’s more alluring to luxuriate in a state of confusion than to actually find an answer to your questions. But there’s a difference between the sublime unanswered narrative question and the one left dangling simply because it was dropped for other things. The finale of “Lost” worked fantastically, but only if you ignore chunks of previous seasons. Does that make it a bad episode, or series? Not at all. It’s been one of the most entertaining action/sci-fi shows of this generation. But it doesn’t live up to the promise and power of its first daring year, when we hadn’t yet learned the happenstance ways in which our questions would be answered or ignored. There have been amazing moments along the way, but I’m not sure the series holds water the way it’s been knitted together. I didn’t want everything answered, I honestly didn’t. (Weirdly, I like that DHARMA is this kind of tangential story that just kept getting whatthefuckier until it exploded.) But I’m also not going to say that crafting a mystery and then backing out of it is anything other than desperate. -- http://www.pajiba.com/lost_recaps/lost-the-end-recap-everyones-waiting.php -- H

 

[Brett_M]

Since no one has mentioned it yet, I think I will:


How hot did Kate look in that dress?


Yikes.

 

[mattCR]

Originally Posted by Joe_H

I think the wreckage at the end makes a poor example if you're trying to use that to sell the whole 6 seasons as being purgatory. If that's the case, where are all the bodies that would've been strewn across the beach at the time?


I don't want to sound like a jerk or anything, but to me I didn't think that part of the ending was open-ended at all, especially with Christian's "some died before you, some died long after you" line and the fact that Hurley and Ben discuss their time protecting the island. Of course, if that's how you want to interpret it, okay, but to me that's just flat-out wrong.

As far as it goes, I took the bomb to be nothing, it was the moment where Juliet fulfilled her mission in life, to believe that she would sacrifice her dreams for something else. She had been trying to do that since early on, when instead of sacrificing some of her dreams to save her sister, she went forward and went into a different form of medicine. The moment she could accept that she would give herself over, she moved on. The bomb was just her way of doing that.


Hurley had spent his life running from responsibility. He one a lotto, ran off, couldn't cope with things. The moment he was willing to accept the responsibility of the island, he was ready to move on.
Benjamin had never been able to let someone else lead, he had always felt threatened or chafed under their leadership. He couldn't follow. The moment he willingly, with no deceit, became a #2, he would have been ready.. except Benjamin knew that he still wasn't there, in his limbo stage, he still fought to become the top dog, still took on the principle in an attempt to take his job and leadership. He in fact, wasn't ready, so he couldn't enter the church.


They've been dead all six seasons and the demons they fought were their own, Some arrived or appeared as they died and felt as thought they should be in the same place.

This is of course, my interpretation, so take it for what you will.

 

[Greg.K]

Originally Posted by DaveF

The key to this finale was actually the 2-hour recap show

that began at 7pm EST. It was specially created for the

purpose of highlighting the most important elements of the

past 6 seasons. Those who watched the recap saw the finale

touch upon most all those moments. In that recap, Richard

utters the line "This is purgatory." However, this theory was

continually dismissed by the show's head writer. So, I don't

know what to think.


Thank God we didn't get a Sopranos ending. On the other

hand, I sort of wish there was a bigger payoff --- the kind

we got when we first discovered (at the end of season 3)

that Jack was in a flash-forward or the moment we discovered

who Jacob really was.

To me the payoff was Jack at the end, seeing the plane flying overhead, knowing that he succeeded and his sacrifice was worth it. I thought that was done perfectly.

As for a Sopranos ending,


Watch the Jimmy Kimmel "alternate endings" - The Sopranos parody was easily the best of the three.

 

[Dave Mack]

But Matt. If they had been dead all along, they never would have met Ben and never would have interacted with him in the "afterlife". Makes no sense. And everything Christian said to Jack at the end would have been either wrong or a lie. "Some died before, some died long after..."

 

[mattCR]

Originally Posted by Dave Mack

But Matt. If they had been dead all along, they never would have met Ben and never would have interacted with him in the "afterlife". Makes no sense. And everything Christian said to Jack at the end would have been either wrong or a lie. "Some died before, some died long after..."

What makes you think that? Almost all of them had let go of their former life on the island. In 6 seasons, how often did you here long discussions about someone not on the island, a husband or wife they were heartbroken over?


They met all of these people in purgatory. Ben and many had been there a long time. They all got to know each other through their experiences, they needed each other to move to the next level. But it was a purgatory of sorts. Who they met there is the same as all the people who stocked the hospital, were police officers, car drivers, etc. in the afterlife. They were also there as part of their journey, just moving through.


(And I will admit, years later, that I originally really didn't care for the Sopranos ending.. now, I view it as maybe the most brilliant conclusion to a series ever, as it was effective and more realistic then I could have imagined, a glimpse inside his head.. nothing ends, just more s--- over and over again, but a constant evaluation of who is out to get you.. creepy and brilliant, IMHO)

 

[cineMANIAC]

I'm going to have to go back and rewatch the episode where Hurley's imaginary asylum buddy tells him he's actually dead (or something similar). That was the first time I thought about the "they're all dead" scenario but I didn't think it would be that simple. Count me in with the (minority?) group that was a bit underwhelmed by the finale - I guess I was more interested in the more fantastical elements of the show, like the secret hatches, slave ships in the middle of the jungle, the Dharma Initiative, etc. Doesn't stop me from calling it the best show on television ever, though.

 

[mylan]

Originally Posted by Brett_M /forum/thread/295107/lost-season-six/1470#post_3694200

 

[Arild]

Those of you who think they died in the original crash - they didn't. Everything in the first five seasons really happened. Everything in this season really happened, except the "flash sideways" which we now know was some sort of "pre-afterlife" (purgatory?). Incidentally, this means that Faraday's plan to change the timeline did not work. It also explains why we never encountered Michael in the sideways - his spirit was unable to leave the island. Jack died at the end, everyone else probably lived good long lives (hence Kate's "I missed you!" - that threw me a bit at first, when did she have the time to miss Jack if she'd only just "woken up", herself?). The sideways story only began once everyone had eventually died.


The only thing that remains somewhat unclear, IMO, is the on-island stuff. Why was it so important to save the island? Jacob's "cork" analogy is all we're left with, so I guess if the island had been destroyed then there would have been nasty consequences for the world as "evil" would have spread, but exactly what that means we'll never know.


Random observation of the day: I understand now why they named a character after C.S. Lewis.... The Chronicles of Narnia ends pretty much the same way.

 

[Dave Mack]

But Matt still, if they had never met Ben in real life, why would they meet, interact with him at ALL in purgatory, the afterlife? And why would Hurley say, "You made a great number two." And why would Locke forgive him if they had never met while alive?

 

[Arild]

Originally Posted by Luisito34


He didn't say they were dead, he said they were a dream. Clearly, that wasn't the case.

 

[Dave Mack]

Arild, That's my exact take. The sideways world happens when they all die and since time means nothing there that's why it all took place in a couple of days. If they had had the whole season as the "parallel universe, alternate reality" and THEN we had found out that it was all Twilight Zone, they are dead, in their heads That would have felt like a cheat. By doing the way they did it bouncing back and forth it still keeps the surprise but doesn't feel cheap. Also wait, why would he have whole episodes devoted to Jacob, Man In Black, Richard if that had never happened. that REALLY makes no sense. Who is relating their story? Since none of them were in the afterlife, purgatory, whatever... why would their story even be told. Nobody from the plane existed back then so where does the POV come from?

If the whole series had been "limbo" that's really lazy and old hat. Was cool in the 60's when the twilight zone did it. Not now. Didn't the creators even say in an interview somewhere that that is NOT what was happening?

 

[Holadem]

Originally Posted by Arild

Those of you who think they died in the original crash - they didn't. Everything in the first five seasons really happened. Everything in this season really happened, except the "flash sideways" which we now know was some sort of "pre-afterlife" (purgatory?). Incidentally, this means that Faraday's plan to change the timeline did not work. It also explains why we never encountered Michael in the sideways - his spirit was unable to leave the island. Jack died at the end, everyone else probably lived good long lives (hence Kate's "I missed you!" - that threw me a bit at first, when did she have the time to miss Jack if she'd only just "woken up", herself?). The sideways story only began once everyone had eventually died.

Yup, and frankly I don't think this is open to interpretation at all. This does not mean that it was immediately obvious in the closing moments of the finale, because although Christian essentially spelled it out, it's a lot to take in after an intense 2.5 hours. This stuff takes time to process.


That said, once one has been exposed to this explanation, whether by oneself, or by reading it here or elsewhere, I think it is silly to persist in believing in this oddly pervasive "they all died in the crash, and the Island was purgatory" meme (it's all over the net!) which doesn't begin to make sense. At all.


--

H

 

[mattCR]

Originally Posted by Dave Mack

But Matt still, if they had never met Ben in real life, why would they meet, interact with him at ALL in purgatory, the afterlife? And why would Hurley say, "You made a great number two." And why would Locke forgive him if they had never met while alive?

How do we know at least one of them didn't know Ben in real life? But whether they did or didn't, none of them knew each other in real life, outside of the shared experience of the plane flight, which was too brief for them to learn each others life story. Purgatory is huge. The island was simply one of the gateways for those with that kind of need. Hurley saying "you made a great #2" was trying to get Ben to accept that he had crossed his threshhold, he had learned to accept that he didn't have to be the leader. But Ben knew that was wrong, Ben, even after moving on past it still challenged for authority and bridled at being less then #1. He hadn't learned his lesson, despite Hurley's suggestion he had.. so he couldn't enter the Church.


Look, I think we're going to end up agreeing to disagree.

 

[Dave Mack]

agreed. it makes no sense. Once again, why full length episodes taking place hundreds of years ago about Richard, Jacob and MIB...? And they never would have met Ben if they all died.

 

[TravisR]

Originally Posted by Arild
Those of you who think they died in the original crash - they didn't. Everything in the first five seasons really happened. Everything in this season really happened, except the "flash sideways" which we now know was some sort of "pre-afterlife" (purgatory?).

Yeah, I know the show wanted to leave itself open to interpretation but I don't see how anyone thinks the above is wrong.

 

[Dave Mack]

I don't think Ben didn't enter the church because he was sore about never being # 1, I think it was because after in his "afterlife" living a very milquetoasty life as a schoolteacher, "I'm a Doctor" with issues to snap awake to remember that in life he had killed dozens of people was a LOT to accept, process and deal with. The fact that Locke "forgave" him was a step and it registers hugely with Ben.