Justice League (2017) (1 Viewer)

[Josh Steinberg]

Elfman was brought in late on Avengers: Age of Ultron, so the final score was still much more Brian Tyler's than Elfman's. Though Elfman's tracks were certainly superior to Tyler's.

And they both shared a credit, which is rarer.

I think neither of their contributions were as good as Alan Silvestri's in the first Avengers movie. If there's one area where Marvel has been really disappointing, it's the original scores their films have. They're often generic and dull, and they've missed multiple opportunities to establish proper themes for each character. Iron Man has appeared at least six times in the MCU so far, and he doesn't have a theme that follows him from movie to movie. It's a huge mistake in my view. When I think about, say, the 1989 version of Batman, if you mention a character or scene, I can instantly remember the sound of the music. But nothing comes to mind for most of the Marvel movies and characters.

 

[Josh Steinberg]

Not sure I follow your comments about Zimmer. Junkie XL is the one leaving this project to work on Tomb Raider. I don't think Zimmer has ever been able teaches to Justice League (sorry if I got that wrong).

I'm sorry, that wasn't worded well on my part.

I assumed that Danny Elfman was being signed as the first composer for this film; I didn't realize he was being brought in to replace someone. My thought when I saw that the job going to anyone other than Hans Zimmer was, "Well, Zimmer has been saying in interviews that he was almost done with scoring superhero movies, so I guess he's finally done with them."

If I had known that Junkie XL (why can't people just use names anymore? I feel so dumb typing out "Junkie XL") had been signed to the picture previously, I would have had that reaction back then. I had just been assuming that Zimmer and Junkie XL would be continuing their association from the previous film in the series.

 

[Sean Bryan]

And they both shared a credit, which is rarer.

I think neither of their contributions were as good as Alan Silvestri's in the first Avengers movie. If there's one area where Marvel has been really disappointing, it's the original scores their films have. They're often generic and dull, and they've missed multiple opportunities to establish proper themes for each character. Iron Man has appeared at least six times in the MCU so far, and he doesn't have a theme that follows him from movie to movie. It's a huge mistake in my view. When I think about, say, the 1989 version of Batman, if you mention a character or scene, I can instantly remember the sound of the music. But nothing comes to mind for most of the Marvel movies and characters.

Marvel definitely dropped a few balls with character themes, but they've done some pretty great stuff as well. But part of the problem is that they haven't had a great track record of continuing the great themes. Iron Man's 'Driving with the Top Down" should have been kept and expanded for all of his movies. Thor's theme from Patrick Doyle was great, but they dropped it because Brian Tyler wanted to do his own thing.

Silvestri's Captain America theme is classic. On the one hand, it's a shame that not more than just subtle echo of that hasn't carried over to his sequels. However, the tone of The Winter Soldier movie really just doesn't mesh well with that classic theme it would have felt somewhat out of place. Jackman's "Taking a Stand" is excellent however, and I feel it was a strong and worthy replacement. Then I felt it was a shame that this new theme (Taking a Stand) didn't carry over into Civil War. But again, do to the nature of that story the theme used for Cap wouldn't have felt right if it was the classic inspirational march or the new driving and emotional Taking a Stand, it had to be a more somber and tragic sound because Cap wasn't facing off against a villain but friend so it was changed yet again. At least the thematically appropriate and unsettling "Winter Soldier" theme was carrier over for Bucky. Hopefully Silvestri revisits his classic Cap March for Infinity War. I'd love maybe a slightly reworked version which includes cues from Taking a Stand. But then again it's an Avengers movie so they may not do too much with distinctive themes for the characters. Silvestri didn't really use his own classic Cap March in The Avengers after all.

Guardians of the Galaxy has a pretty memorable and hummable theme which has been continued through both films. Ant-Man had a really great sounding theme. One of Marvel's best in my opinion. And I think Doctor Strange had a pretty great sound as well. I just hope that the sequels keep the same composers and continue those themes.

 

[Sean Bryan]

I'm sorry, that wasn't worded well on my part.

I assumed that Danny Elfman was being signed as the first composer for this film; I didn't realize he was being brought in to replace someone. My thought when I saw that the job going to anyone other than Hans Zimmer was, "Well, Zimmer has been saying in interviews that he was almost done with scoring superhero movies, so I guess he's finally done with them."

If I had known that Junkie XL (why can't people just use names anymore? I feel so dumb typing out "Junkie XL") had been signed to the picture previously, I would have had that reaction back then. I had just been assuming that Zimmer and Junkie XL would be continuing their association from the previous film in the series.

Gotcha.

And I agree. "Junkie XL" is about as stupid as names come.

 

[Josh Steinberg]

My problem with the Doctor Strange score is that Giacchino is ripping off his own Star Trek work, and it's a little jarring hearing those Trek-y cues in a Marvel movie. On the whole, it's not a bad score, but I wish it wasn't as similar as it is.

But part of the problem is that they haven't had a great track record of continuing the great themes.

Exactly!

I'm not a fan of Brian Tyler's scores - his stuff strikes me as bland and generic. I don't love that Marvel seems to have made him their go-to guy.

 

[Josh Steinberg]

And I agree. "Junkie XL" is about as stupid as names come.

I might be overly sensitive on this point, but when you've lost, are losing or are continuing to lose people to addiction-related ailments, it doesn't seem right when I see a musician whose primarily made his name with a genre of music often associated with overdoses using a name that seems to glamoroize or promote that behavior.

That may not be his intent, but when the hottest DJ at the club calls himself a "junkie," I think that sends a message that's not such a great one.

 

[Adam Lenhardt]

I'm not surprised Junkie XL left the project since his relationship was with Zack Snyder.

Having the guy who wrote this theme:


...scoring Batman again is actually very exciting. I doubt he'll reuse the Keaton Batman theme, but seeing what he comes up with instead is also exciting.

I'm not invested in any of the existing Snyderverse themes, so I'd be just as happy if he went completely fresh for Justice League.

 

[Josh Steinberg]

I really like Zimmer's theme for Superman, but that's the only one I've had any sort of emotional reaction to in the DCEU.

 

[Sean Bryan]

I'm not a fan of Brian Tyler's scores - his stuff strikes me as bland and generic. I don't love that Marvel seems to have made him their go-to guy.

I'm not certain, but I think Marvel and Tyler are done. Hopefully someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but from reading discussions on various forums I was under the impression that Marvel wanted Silvestri back for Age of Ultron but Tyler had some type of contract with them that tied their hands. Sounds kind of weird, but I read something along those lines.

He composed the music for the Marvel Studios fanfare for Thor: The Dark World, and that was used for The Winter Soldier and Guardians of the Galaxy. But Guardians was the last time they used it. They dropped it for Age of Ultron. Ant-Man used used "Borombon" and Civil War used music from Jackman's score.

I'm glad that they have now found a new shared fanfare for the new Marvel Studios opening composed by Giacchino (while working on Doctor Strange), and it is much better than Tyler's composition. Interestingly, even though Giacchino is composing Spider-Man Homecoming, I think they may not use his MS fanfare for it. I could be wrong, but I think they may play his new rendition of the classic animated Spider-Man theme that he posted online over the Marvel Studios logo. Maybe.

Anyway, I'm pretty sure they have smartened up a while ago and have been done with Tyler since they needed Elfman to help with the score on Age Of Ultron.

 

[Sam Favate]

Tyler received a lot of praise from James Gunn for his Guardians 2 music. Seeing as how Gunn is taking a bigger and bigger role in overseeing Marvel productions, I'd be surprised if Tyler and Marvel were done.

 

[Sean Bryan]

Tyler received a lot of praise from James Gunn for his Guardians 2 music. Seeing as how Gunn is taking a bigger and bigger role in overseeing Marvel productions, I'd be surprised if Tyler and Marvel were done.

Huh?

Brian Tyler and Tyler Bates are not the same "Tyler"

 

[Sam Favate]

Huh?

Brian Tyler and Tyler Bates are not the same "Tyler"

Whoops! That's what I get for reading while distracted! Sorry!

 

[Sean Bryan]

Whoops! That's what I get for reading while distracted! Sorry!

Ha! No prob.

And yes, Tyler Bates has done some nice work on the Guardians theme for James Gunn. And he's a good example of Marvel "doing it right" in bringing back the same composer and theme for a property's sequel. Unless there is some reason he is unavailable, I'd expect Gunn to use him for volume 3 as well.

 

[Citizen87645]

Brian Tyler Bates. He does a great job on Modern Family.

 

[Josh Steinberg]

But now that you mention it, Tyler Bates' generic scores don't do much for me either. I think Marvel had fantastic scores in their Phase 1, and it's been mostly bland and uninspired since then. The Winter Soldier is a possible exception, but it loses some points in my book for not carrying on any of the themes for the first film, nor having any of its themes carry into the next.

 

[Neil Middlemiss]

My problem with the Doctor Strange score is that Giacchino is ripping off his own Star Trek work, and it's a little jarring hearing those Trek-y cues in a Marvel movie. On the whole, it's not a bad score, but I wish it wasn't as similar as it is.



Exactly!

I'm not a fan of Brian Tyler's scores - his stuff strikes me as bland and generic. I don't love that Marvel seems to have made him their go-to guy.

Josh - I don't think Giacchino's score for Doctor Strange, which I find the most pleasing of all the Marvel scores, is derivative at all of his Star Trek Scores. I've been listening to the Trek scores lately, and again spun Doctor Strange today, and outside of recognizing the 'sound' we associate with composers, Doctor Strange feels fresh and, through the fun instrumentation, quite different from not only all the other Marvel scores, but from Giacchino's other work. There are echoes here and there of some of his other scores, a tinge of Trek to be sure, but no more than the tinge of Trek one would find in later Horner scores, or even from Goldsmith in scores like Hollow Man to his TNG Trek scores.

I actually here some of Don Davis' Matrix score in the Strange score, and it works very well. And Strange Days Ahead has to be the absolute best track of any Marvel score - it is so very good.

 

[Josh Steinberg]

Josh - I don't think Giacchino's score for Doctor Strange, which I find the most pleasing of all the Marvel scores, is derivative at all of his Star Trek Scores.

We may just have to agree to disagree on this point. I'm a music novice, meaning, I don't understand the terminology well enough to really explain where to listen to and what to look for. But there was something about the Strange score, which in general I liked, that kept reminding me of the Trek scores. There were a couple times in my first viewing where it pulled me out of the movie to hear something that felt like it belonged in a different series. It didn't seem as noticeable to me the second time around, so maybe it wasn't as close as I initially thought, but I do think there's a similarity.

In general, I liked it. It's better than any of the generic stuff that Tyler Bates and Brian Tyler have been contributing lately.

 

[Neil Middlemiss]

We may just have to agree to disagree on this point. I'm a music novice, meaning, I don't understand the terminology well enough to really explain where to listen to and what to look for. But there was something about the Strange score, which in general I liked, that kept reminding me of the Trek scores. There were a couple times in my first viewing where it pulled me out of the movie to hear something that felt like it belonged in a different series. It didn't seem as noticeable to me the second time around, so maybe it wasn't as close as I initially thought, but I do think there's a similarity.

In general, I liked it. It's better than any of the generic stuff that Tyler Bates and Brian Tyler have been contributing lately.

Tyler Bates got quite a bit of praise for his Guardians scores but I never really connected with them. Brian Tyler is a much better composer than some of what he has produced lately. Listen to his scores for Children of Dune (it's magnificent), or Frailty, and you'll hear his potential (or his drum-rich score for The Hunted, or his bold horror score for Darkness Falls). I am actually enjoying his score for The Mummy - it's big and goes for bold at times, but it never quite flourishes the way I would have hoped.

I agree with the sentiments expressed here lately about the missed opportunities in the Marvel scores, but I think that's something they are actively addressing. Doctor Strange, and I think the new Spider-Man movie (which Giacchino is also scoring) are steps in the right direction, or more accurately I think, a desire to let trusted composers do more of their thing (and be less safe). That bodes well for future installments of the Marvel cinematic universe.

I re-watched Captain America: The First Avenger last night and enjoyed Alan Silvestri's score, but still wish it had been more thematically rich (it had themes, but they were never as bold as they could have been). And outside of Silvestri's work, and the insanely hummable Doctor Strange score, I have a hard time remembering any of the music (whereas in DC's Man of Steel, though derided by many, it at least had a theme that one could walk away with, even if it paled in comparison to John Williams' score for Superman).

 

[Adam Lenhardt]

The "Doctor Strange" score always reminded me of the music David Arnold and Michael Price have composed for "Sherlock".

 

[Josh Steinberg]

David Arnold's a guy I really didn't think very highly of, particularly for his three Brosnan-era Bond scores. But I thought his work on Casino Royale and Quantum Of Solace was great. More importantly, with his absence for Skyfall and Spectre (both of which are disappointing, and the latter is just bad), I realized he was a lot better than I had ever given him credit for.