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Joker (2019 Movie)

Discussion in 'Movies' started by Sam Favate, Jun 13, 2018.

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  1. Tino

    Tino Executive Producer
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    Dude ...chill. ;)
     
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  2. Colin Jacobson

    Colin Jacobson Lead Actor

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    Who argued that you have to be a talk show host to play one?

    No one other than Mr. Straw Man.

    Some feel that De Niro's performance as a talk show host was unconvincing - especially if we're meant to buy him as essentially a Johnny Carson sort.

    Yes, it's "acting", and some feel his acting wasn't great.

    Radical concept, isn't it?
     
  3. Neil Middlemiss

    Neil Middlemiss Producer
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    Can we please move on on.
     
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  4. Message #444 of 493 Jan 20, 2020
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2020
    JohnRice

    JohnRice Executive Producer

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    Like I said, I should have just kept my thought to myself. Not very long after, I came back to remove my comment, but Tony had already quoted it, so there was no point.

    It seemed like an explanation was in order.
     
  5. Jake Lipson

    Jake Lipson Lead Actor

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    Joker is this week's Honest Trailer and I think they nailed it:

     
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  6. Walter Kittel

    Walter Kittel Lead Actor

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    My reaction to that trailer. :thumbsdown::thumbsdown::thumbsdown:

    Puerile criticism of one of the year's best films. Like Sam Rayburn once said. "Any jackass can kick down a barn, but it takes a good carpenter to build one."

    - Walter,
     
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  7. Tino

    Tino Executive Producer
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    Isn’t that what they ( Honest Trailers) do to every film?
     
  8. Walter Kittel

    Walter Kittel Lead Actor

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    Pretty much, I suppose. Maybe it just rubbed me the wrong way.

    I'm not a big fan of that sort of criticism as my quote of Sam Rayburn makes clear (I hope.)

    - Walter.
     
  9. Message #449 of 493 Jan 21, 2020
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2020
    JohnRice

    JohnRice Executive Producer

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    I'm curious which quote that is, since the quote in your signature is from Nineteen Eighty Four.

    Never mind. duh... now I see it.
     
  10. Jake Lipson

    Jake Lipson Lead Actor

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    I think the Honest Trailer is hilarious. I would also note that they are not saying that it's a bad movie. They can and frequently do Honest Trailers for good movies, pointing out things that are funny about it without criticizing it in a negative way.
     
  11. Josh Steinberg

    Josh Steinberg Executive Producer
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    Yeah, I hate Honest Trailers and all of those other similar things. I understand it’s meant primarily as humor but the problem is that there’s a much wider audience that has come to see them as legitimate film criticism and the democratization of reviewing has led to an entire cottage industry where anything that happens in a movie that someone doesn’t like is incorrectly called out as a “plot hole” or some other nonsense. Even the title “honest trailer” rubs me the wrong way because of the built in suggestion that the film was dishonest.
     
  12. JohnRice

    JohnRice Executive Producer

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    My problem is it's intended as sarcastic humor, but it's really not funny most of the time. It's a very difficult movie to make jokes about, and it tries to make jokes about some topics which simply aren't joke material. Humor is a prickly thing.

    And Josh, I couldn't agree with you more about "the democratization of reviewing". If only more people put as much effort into developing their opinions as they put into defending them. I realize nobody is probably eager to earn my agreement at the moment... so... sorry about that. :wacko:
     
  13. Josh Steinberg

    Josh Steinberg Executive Producer
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    I love honest conversations about art even when they’re with people I disagree with on the topic. My wife doesn’t like my favorite movie but I love talking about why it doesn’t work for her and why it works for me. I don’t mind when art is polarizing. I mind when the argument is disingenuous, and I think that’s often the case with Honest Trailers with the ones I’ve seen. It feels like high level trolling.
     
  14. TonyD

    TonyD Who do we think I am?
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    I think those Honest Trailers are super funny.
    Don’t mind even a little bit that someone has made these to parody to regular trailers which we used to call previews.

    Many previews are pretty awful and don’t provide a real idea of what he movie is.
    I think that’s the joke calling these Honest Trialers.
    It’s just movies Trailers they’re parodying not real world issues.
    It’s not that serious.
     
  15. JohnRice

    JohnRice Executive Producer

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    I think a lot of my difficulty comes from the fact I went through a creative arts program at an extremely demanding school, and that included hundreds of critiques that were like a blood sport. Which was the point of them. If anyone used explanations I often see these days, they would have been eaten alive. I have difficulty accepting this belief that all opinions have value simply for existing, and that all opinions on creativity are equally valid. I graduated in 1987, and I think I'm still a little scarred from those four years.
     
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  16. Message #456 of 493 Jan 21, 2020
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2020
    Jake Lipson

    Jake Lipson Lead Actor

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    The Screen Junkies/Fandom Entertainment team who produce the Honest Trailers also do serious film criticism through reviews, commentary and the other shows that they produce. But I doubt they view the Honest Trailers as fulfilling that same function. It's a comedy series intended primarily to be funny, and to provoke discussion of the film in a funny way. They have made these for good movies and bad movies equally. They're not saying it's a bad movie by giving it a trailer. A lot of the time they'll even admit in the trailer that it's good (such as in The Winter Soldier where they said, it's "a really entertaining, well-directed movie. What? We have to be honest, it's good.") Whether it is funny or not is of course up to subjective interpretation. In the case of Joker, I think the trailer is accurate.
     
  17. Hollywoodaholic

    Hollywoodaholic Edge of Glory?

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    As someone who had never seen an Honest Trailer before, I thought it was pretty damn funny. When did everyone get so sensitive? But then I'm the guy who once blasphemously told a studio executive, "It's just a movie."
     
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  18. Jake Lipson

    Jake Lipson Lead Actor

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    Here is the Honest Trailer Commentary, with the writers of the Honest Trailer actually having a detailed discussion about the movie and what inspired the trailer. Spoilers, obviously.

     
  19. WillG

    WillG Lead Actor

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    I watched this last night and was thinking very much the same thing. I can’t say for sure if those guys would have raped that woman, but they certainly could have potentially killed Arthur so when he killed the first two guys it’s justifiable to the audience. And even though he technically murdered the third guy, one could certainly understand why he did that.

    I also agree the person(s) who also compare this movie to American Psycho and Joker goes very much for an ambiguity of what is real and what isn’t. Especially in the third act things are portrayed that border on the fantastical. This is probably as big of an “unreliable narrator” movie as you can get. Has there been any good analysis of what was real and what wasn’t. Here are a few things I questioned. Spoilerized to be safe

    Did Arthur really kill Murray? Because I question that he could have made it on stage with a gun on him, no security, even back then? Also assuming Murray’s show was supposed to have been a facsimile to Carson, it wouldn’t have been broadcast live, as was depicted. Was Arthur really on the show at all?

    Did Arthur really kill his mother. I imagine it might have been hard for him to smother her while hooked up to vital monitoring equipment without anyone coming into the room

    “Joker Bros” stealing and ambulance and ramming the right police car that Arthur was in

    was Thomas Wayne really a dick? Because it contrasts with pretty much ever other characterization of Wayne. Aside from the scene where he and Martha were killed, did we ever see Wayne outside of Arthur’s perspective
     
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  20. Message #460 of 493 Jan 22, 2020
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2020
    WillG

    WillG Lead Actor

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    Getting fired or docked for petty shit like that does happen.

    There was a story recently that I read that an Amazon delivery employee that refused to complete delivery of wine to an 80 year old woman because she didn’t have her ID on her. Seems ridiculous, but the guy was absolutely right. They will fire you for not adhering to procedure. I actually heard, not sure if true, but companies like Amazon setup test deliveries to make sure that policy is being adhered to.

    if you wait tables, in a lot of restaurants, if one of your tables “dine and dash” you’re on the hook for the bill
     
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