Joker: Folie à deux

[Alex...]

Title: Joker 2

Genre: Drama, Crime, Thriller

Director: Todd Phillips

Cast: Joaquin Phoenix

Plot: A sequel to the 2019 film Joker.

 

[Alex...]

 

[TonyD]

 

[Jeffrey D]

Bad idea. The original was a dour, heavy experience- one of my 3 most depressing films I have ever seen (alongside The Deer Hunter, and Requiem For A Dream). Pass.

 

[Jake Lipson]

I'm not sure that the original Joker really needs a sequel. It felt extremely satisfying as a whole experience. But I also didn't have high expectations for the first movie and was proven wrong. I don't think it was perfect, and the Batman mythology elements seemed like window dressing they didn't really want in order to help them sell what would otherwise be a small indie movie about mental illness. But it was a good movie on its own.

We also know that Joaquin Phoenix chooses his projects very carefully, and he won an Oscar for the first movie. There is no reason for him to come back for something that could tarnish that work. So if he thinks the script for this one is good enough that he wants to make it, then sure. I'll see that.

It also makes complete sense for Warner Bros. to do this because the first film had a $55 million budget and grossed over $1 billion. So the return on investment for that movie was really, really high. And they got prestige too from its Best Picture nomination. I'm sure this is an easy greenlight. But having the subtitle in French seems like a strange choice for a mainstream Hollywood film.

 

[WillG]

I'm not sure that the original Joker really needs a sequel. It felt extremely satisfying as a whole experience. But I also didn't have high expectations for the first movie and was proven wrong. I don't think it was perfect, and the Batman mythology elements seemed like window dressing they didn't really want in order to help them sell what would otherwise be a small indie movie about mental illness. But it was a good movie on its own.

We also know that Joaquin Phoenix chooses his projects very carefully, and he won an Oscar for the first movie. There is no reason for him to come back for something that could tarnish that work. So if he thinks the script for this one is good enough that he wants to make it, then sure. I'll see that.

It also makes complete sense for Warner Bros. to do this because the first film had a $55 million budget and grossed over $1 billion. So the return on investment for that movie was really, really high. And they got prestige too from its Best Picture nomination. I'm sure this is an easy greenlight. But having the subtitle in French seems like a strange choice for a mainstream Hollywood film.

It does make me wonder if they have to take a stand on whether or not the end of Joker was real or just unreliable narrator

 

[jayembee]

But having the subtitle in French seems like a strange choice for a mainstream Hollywood film.

It's not "in French". Well, it is, but it's actually a psychiatric term. As such, it qualifies as English in the same way as "pas de deux" (a ballet dance), "avant-garde", or "film noir".

Folie à deux - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Jake Lipson]

It does make me wonder if they have to take a stand on whether or not the end of Joker was real or just unreliable narrator

I'm not Todd Phillips (surprise) so I can't claim to know what he's thinking. But I don't see how it would be possible to move the story forward in any direction without being definitive about that. This is one of the reasons a sequel surprises me because I figured they would want to leave that as-is from the first movie.

We'll see what they do.

 

[TonyD]

What in tarnation?

 

[Jake Lipson]

I'll watch that.

 

[Malcolm R]

I can see her as Harley Quinn, but am skeptical about the possible musical angle.

Though I have no interest in the first film, and likely won't watch a sequel, either.

 

[Jake Lipson]

We know Joaquin Phoenix can sing from Walk the Line. We know that Todd Phillips has a professional relationship with Lady Gaga already because he was a producer on her version of A Star is Born. And the first film featured "Send in the Clowns" during the movie while Arthur was being taunted.

The musical news isn't something I expected to read today, but I buy it. I didn't think that the first Joker was going to work and it did, so I'm willing to go on this ride. I also happen to love musicals in general.

The other obvious question is the extent of Gaga's involvement. Is she just playing Harley or is she also going to participate in writing the songs? Composer/performers don't always have to write. Lin-Manuel Miranda acted in Mary Poppins Returns without writing anything for it. But also asking Gaga to work as composer for the songs would seem to be a possibility.

Given that Hildur Guðnadóttir won an Oscar for her work on the first film's instrumental score, I would expect her to be involved again at least for that. I don't know enough about her work to know if she has experience writing musicals or not.

 

[TravisR]

The insane idea of making Part 2 a musical actually makes me interested in seeing a sequel.

 

[jayembee]

I suppose it all depends on what someone means when they say "a musical". I mean, are we talking full-on Rogers & Hammerstein, with the narrative being propelled along in song and dance? Or would it just be a situation where Gaga as Harley would break out into Broadway tunes as she commits her crimes? I'd buy the latter, but I'm not convinced that they'd seriously consider the former.

 

[Wayne_j]

The subtitle of the script translates to something about shared delusions, the musical numbers could be their delusions.

 

[Jake Lipson]

The first Joker was unexpected and unconventional for a movie based on a comic book character. Making the sequel a musical would be unexpected and unconventional. So in a way it is continuing in the tradition of Joker being nontraditional. It certainly worked last time. So I'm inclined to give Phillips and Phoenix the benefit of the doubt that they know what they're doing.

 

[Jim517]

They're doing the sequel for one reason. Money !

 

[Jake Lipson]

Money !

Warner Bros. might be doing it for the money, but I don't think Joaquin Phoenix is that kind of actor. I mean, yes, he will be paid well for it. But he is really choosey about the kinds of projects that he signs up for and doesn't tend to do franchise films. He does not currently have a deal in place for this movie and is currently in negotiations, meaning that he isn't required by previous option to do this unless he wants to. I really think that he has seen something in the script for the sequel that he finds interesting. Otherwise, there would be no reason for him to do a sequel to his Oscar winning triumph. He certainly doesn't need the money.

 

[TravisR]

They're doing the sequel for one reason. Money !

That's also the reason that pretty much every movie ever made was made.

 

[Alex...]

Spoiler: Rumored Script Details

Some details about Joker 2... so the script has been floating around for the last few weeks among industry people and some of the people around me have read it -- here's what I 100% know is in the script -- Arthur Fleck (Joaquin) escapes prison/asylum and goes on a killing rampage before meeting Lady Gaga's character (who is NOT Harley Quinn. I don't know where the media got that from) who is extremely deranged as well... but in her own way. The dynamic between the two is not a straightforward romance. It's more of a Tom & Jerry type situation. If this script is anything to go by, the film is 50 times more violent than any other mainstream comic-book movie we've seen. The body-count is through the roof, and the deaths are extremely gruesome. There's multiple decapitations, torture scenes, a castration (!!!), bombs going off, and a very CLOCKWORK ORANGE style rape scene, with the victim ending up dead. The "Singing in the Rain" rape scene from A Clockwork Orange is the best way to describe the "musical" aspect of this film. It's not a "La La Land", "A Star Is Born" type musical at all, and will make all traditional fans of the musical genre walk out of the theatre. It also won't be the type of music they're expecting from Lady Gaga at all. I don't want to spoil the ending for you, but let's just say there is not much of a possibility for a third Joker movie. This movie will blow people's minds if it's shot well. The script is shocking and doesn't even feel like a big-budget franchise movie. No way this gets a PG13 rating. Let's hope the studio doesn't interfere too much.

https://www.worldofreel.com/blog/2022/7/9q8pw2ill2x2vy0jrse7diutyxycvq