HTF AFI 100 revote results (1 Viewer)

[David Dennison]

80 Frankenstein (my 36) This is not my favorite movie, but I ranked it high because of "greatness" value. It is a true classic of the horror genre and much better than the sequel (which apparently is going to be ranked higher).

79 The Wild Bunch (my 39) This is my favorite western of all time. I am disappointed by the low ranking.

78 His Girl Friday (my 56) I really enjoy this movie and the Lemmon/Matthau remake, but this ranking isn't far off.

77 The African Queen (my 27) This is the biggest discrepency in my list. I love Hepburn and Bogart.

76 E.T. the Extra-Terrestrial (my 37) Another big disappointment. I guess the "newness" and "kiddie" aspects of the movie hurt even though it is 20 years old. I think it is okay to have a few movies from the 80's and 90's near the top of the best ever lists.

75 The Philadelphia Story (my 85) The only film in this list I ranked lower than the group. It is not a bashing of comedies, but really I was just bored by this film. Stewart, Grant, and Hepburn are probably my 3 favorite actors of the time, but there are so many better movies from each of these actors.

74 Manhattan (my 46) I am not real upset by this ranking.

73 It Happened One Night (my 40) This is one of my favorite comedies and deserves a much higher ranking.

72 Pinocchio (my 53) It is hard to rank animated movies along side the rest so I can't say this ranking is that disappointing.

71 Close Encounters of the Third Kind (my 69) This ranking works for me.

For the most part this list hit a group of movies ranking in the 30's and 40's for me. I imagine there will have to be some films ranked considerably to high for my tastes. At least, I have yet to see one of my top 20 movies fall.

The top 100 list I sent for our HTF top 100 is quite a bit different than my own personal top 100 list. Besides the fact that I just have quite a few different films in my list, the rankings outside of the top 20 also differ quite a bit. I added weight for greatness, contribution to a genre or to film as a whole, awards and popular sentiment at the time, and some of the other factors used by the AFI for their rankings. Of course, my personal liking and rewatchability play the biggest factor which is why the approximately top 20 would be the same for both lists.

 

[Robert Crawford]

Looks like we need another thread to discuss the merits of "His Girl Friday" versus "Bringing Up Baby". Also, I find your unique opinions about certain films somewhat interesting, however, in a different kind of way.


Crawdaddy

 

[george kaplan]

I'm not sure, but I think I've been insulted, in a very polite way.

 

[Brian E]

80 - Frankenstein (my 60)

79 - Wild Bunch (my 89)

78 - His Girl Friday (my 94)

77 - The African Queen (my 36)

76 - ET (my 98)

75 - The Philadelphia Story (my 82)

74 - Manhattan (my 94)

73 - It Happened One Night (my 37)

72 - Pinocchio (my 96)

71 - Close Encounters (my 78)

 

[Seth Paxton]

80 - Frankenstein (my 32)
I have the sequel ranked just a bit higher because I obviously do think it's a better film, but both are outstanding in numerous ways. Cinematography is straight out of the German expressionist that Murnau, Lang or even a young Hitch was bringing. Whale's direction on this and the sequel is some of the best direction ever, IMO. And so much of the script/dialog is really outstanding stuff.
My fav line in this film "Here I come". Just is a creepy moment to me due to the weirdness. Also, I've always appreciated good set pieces for outdoor scenes. There is something romantically surreal about them.
That said, I'm not terrible dissappointed with where it ended up.
79 - Wild Bunch (my 94)
I like westerns, but this film is a bit cliched and dull for me, despite the ultra-violence that broke new ground (not unlike Bonnie and Clyde). Unforgiven was actually my highest western (with High Noon just a few spots below it) so I guess it's a preference for a different style.
It's position here doesn't really bother me since I realize other people do like it more than me.
78 - His Girl Friday (my 95)
I just don't find this film half as sharp as Philadelphia Story nor half as funny as Arsenic and Old Lace or Bringing Up Baby. Good, but just not as great as many other "similar" comedies.
77 - The African Queen (my 98)
This is a film I would have voted off the list. I appreciate the 2 great actors getting together for one last great triumph, but a lot of the film feels rather plain to me to be honest. I don't feel anything about the film to be particularly fresh or innovative, from story to dialog to cinematography to direction. Satisfying, yes, entertaining too, but nothing that 15 films a year don't do.
76 - ET (my 74)
Obviously I agree with the ranking. It's a top 100 film for sure, it tore up the BO, it put "phone home" and "et" into the popular vocabulary. But really is ETs impact greater than Ghostbusters in that regard?
Of course what would seperate this film from something like that is SS outstanding visual sense. The film includes several VISUAL moments that are even more classic than the dialog/story. The screen cap being one, or ETs glowing finger as another.
But I still find many of SS's films to be even better examples of great filmmaking (many of which show up later).
75 - The Philadelphia Story (my 28)
I think this script is genius, the acting is sublime, and much of the humor is fast and furious yet brilliantly subtle. Grant was always the best at this type of wit, though Hepburn could give him a run for it. But who knew Stewart had it in him, really funny stuff.
Maybe the point with comedies here is that since comedic taste varies more than any other, it's hard for a comedy not to get mixed responses and therefore they end up averaged out in the middle someplace.
74 - Manhattan (my 44)
I love the charm of Manhattan. First, a true love poem written to NYC which is great. But also the film doesn't really hide the flaws in both NYC AND in Woody's attitude. I feel that a film like this shows the confusion within him and the city, at times wonderful but at other times self-destructive. And he seems to know it.
Hey, it's B&W 2.35, that in itself is something. The film is so beautiful just to look at, yet inside that package is a straight comedy for the most part. That's a nice mix. I would have liked to see this higher, but then it wasn't even on the original list. I prefer this to Annie Hall, though I actually like Sleeper more than either of them (but Manhattan is a better all-around film IMO).
73 - It Happened One Night (my 48)
Another groundbreaker in terms of a genre (or sub-genre in this case), the romantic road-comedy. Gable's wit and charm is on full display here, and Claudette Colbert is the perfect match for his tough persona.
I'm a bit surprised by this position.
72 - Pinocchio (my 60)
I rank it this high because of the amazing step forward Disney took. While Snow White established the feature length animated film, Pinocchio came back and improved upon everything SW promised. The songs remain as good or better, the artwork goes another step up (including the incredible new layering process they came up with) and the story is even more complex (in terms of scene changes).
When you follow up a legend and do it even better, that is impressive. To me the strength of Pinocchio destroyed any idea that SW was a one-hit wonder in terms of what animated features could be (of course Sleeping Beauty took yet another step in terms of artistic creativity).
71 - Close Encounters (my 58)
I love this film (again, great "outdoor" set pieces like that memorable road side scene). One of Dreyfuss' 3 great films IMO (Jaws, AGraffiti). I still rank several of SS other films above this one, but I think this film is a definate grade up from ET, as good as that film is.
Still, not too dissappointed with this ranking. I had 3 films ranked lower, 6 ranked higher, 2 of those being much higher on my list.
Looks like we are experiencing the same thing here, but for different films.

 

[Dome Vongvises]

I gotta agree with Seth and his assessment of The African Queen.

I see that the film Frankenstein is getting some regards from members here. I've never seen it myself, but what makes the film great? You've all got my curiosity going here.

I'm sad to see that It Happened One Night got ranked lower than the actual list. I thought it was charming, even in this day and age.

 

[Jay E]

80 - Frankenstein (71)
79 - Wild Bunch (44)
78 - His Girl Friday (63)
77 - The African Queen (86)
76 - ET (97)
75 - The Philadelphia Story (68)
74 - Manhattan (63)
73 - It Happened One Night (92)
72 - Pinocchio (91)
71 - Close Encounters (81)

Not much for me to say except I'm glad to see thst E.T. & It Happened One Night didn't make it into the top 50, I find both to be overrated. I still can't believe that Goldfinger hasn't been ranked yet.

 

[Gabe D]

80 - Frankenstein (My #88)

Were there no Bride of Frankenstein on the list, I might've ranked this one higher. A really beautiful movie to look at, but I think the sequel is superior in just about every way.

79 - The Wild Bunch (My #78)

No complaints here, obviously. The Wild Bunch is one of those movies that I appreciate more than enjoy. The Peckinpah slo-mo violence as ballet is always impressive.

78 - His Girl Friday (My #15)

Well, I obviously think it's a lot funnier and sharper than the rest of you guys. The definition of screwball comedy. I guess I shouldn't be surprised by the mixed reaction to a comedy, but I really am this time.

77 - The African Queen (My #58)

A great movie, a real classic. Still, I'm not too upset with the rank. There's a lot of great movies on this list.

76 - E.T. the Extra-Terrestrial (My #98)

Here's one that definitely deserves to be on the list, strictly for it's cultural impact. Honestly, though, I don't think it's even one of Spielberg's ten best movies.

75 - The Philadelphia Story (My #48)

So, is that it for the Cary Grant comedies, then? I guess I should be glad they're on the list at all, but I still think they're undervalued. Just look some (not all) of the comedies Grant made between 1937 and 1942: Topper, The Awful Truth, Bringing Up Baby, His Girl Friday, My Favorite Wife, The Philadelphia Story and The Talk of the Town. Three of those movies made the list, and not necessarily the best three. It was a really remarkable run.

74 - Manhattan (My #86)

I'm a huge Woody Allen fan, but Manhattan doesn't really do it for me. It's up there with the most beautiful-to-look-at movies ever, but the story's a drag. The relationship between Woody Allen and Mariel Hemingway never seemed anything but creepy.

73 - It Happened One Night (My #36)

So far we all agree that this one should've been much higher. So what gives? Did several people rank it in the 90's? [edit: I was working on something else while I typed this (over a period of about 80 minutes), so I actually wrote it before Jay's comments.]

72 - Pinocchio (My #64)

Pretty close to where I ranked it. I love this movie, by the way.

71 - Close Encounters of the Third Kind (My #96)

I might put this in the Spielberg top ten. I think the first half is really great.

 

[Seth Paxton]

Jay, me too. On the list is one thing, but some people are going to need to do some defending when it shows up on the list where it's at.


Dome, Frankenstein first of all has outstanding cinematography. Classic B&W work. Secondly Whale's direction is really something. There is one famous edit that he came up with which is to zoom in on a face by cuts. Say medium shot, cut to closer shot of face, cut to close up of face.

It's a shot that many people have since borrowed to achieve the same dramatic effect.

Also, Whale really brought the most out of the actors. You are probably familiar with the "It's alive, it's alive" scene at least. It's typical of the dramatic madness alive throughout the film.

The film's only drawback is that it is just cut too short and so it often zips through storyline that should have been given more scenes to allow things to boil some. That being said, his cut keeps the pace uptempo and still conveys tons of gothic horror.

And the art direction for the film is outstanding. There are so many great set pieces in the film.

And yet Bride of Frankenstein is an even greater achievement IMO.

I would guess that someone who hasn't seen the film doesn't realize the rather dark/twisted edge the film has. Frankenstein has the appeal of a fun popcorn horror film, but it was made with a very focused artistic angle rarely seen in modern action/horror. It's as much an art film as a crowd pleaser.

 

[Seth Paxton]

Comedy.
Looking at the list I can see that no straight comedies ended up very high on the list, and the highest ranked films had something besides comedy going for them.
So really we are seeing some of the highest ranked comedies already. In that context it's less disturbing to see Philadelphia Story, etc where they are. It's not like Dumb and Dumber is at #15.
Comedy without some other artistic agenda just doesn't rank well on "top films" lists.

 

[Adam_S]

I don't really have much to add except that this thread is very enjoyable. a few comments on the most recent batch.
I'm thrilled to see Pinocchio on the list, it truly is a magnificent film and acheivement.
It's too bad that ET fell so hard for your list, I think the AFI had it just about right (I'd have put it between 25 and 35), unfortunately I have the feeling that this list will be more didactic and pretentious than the afi list, simply because many voters seem to greatly prefer films that put you to sleep cough2001cough (had to borrow from a recent thread I've really enjoyed, although only 2001 is a real snoozer for me) to films that can make you smile or feel better or in the case of ET distill the absolute magic/tragedy of childhood into a brief 100 minute liquorous essence, with damn near flawless technical execution, and honest performances if not 'great'.
A film's genre and it's subject matter seem to be big qualifiers of how it will fall on the HTF list. brilliant straight comedy's like His Girl Friday is given a lower rating because it's only merely comedy on some people's list, or they simply didn't think it was funny (still trying to figure out how that is possible). Likewise Westerns take a beating because they're only westerns and not as serious. Though I must say, "One Two Three" is an all time favorite comedy of mine, that I would have liked to see on the list. The most encouraging thing I've seen so far is that Some Like it HOt and The Apartment have not yet appeared! especially for "The Apartment" it's my third favorite film ever, and I was outraged that it was in the nineties on the AFI list.
I'm somewhat discouraged at this point. I wonder if Citizen Kane will remain the best film because it's just accepted by 'everyone' that it is the best film, while it's certainly a great film. there are at least twenty films I enjoy more on the AFI list, and I'd rank at least ten of them as greater than Citizen Kane. For all of CK's pretentious brilliance, and it's pretty good job of entertaining and telling an engaging story, there are much better films that are just as artistic without slapping you in the face with it, and they tell better stories as well. I consider John Ford, David Lean, Billy Wilder, Martin Scorsese and Steven Spielberg to be at least equals with Welles on a technical mastery of film technique, and all of them can tell more effective stories, more entertaining, and more interesting stories than Welles in my opinion. This is not to be a dis on Welles, he is one of the greatest directors ever and he made some damn fine movies, but I do not think that Citizen Kane is THE MASTERPIECE it is made out to be--rather it is the first modernist film before postclassicism even started, and it set an extremely high standard of excellence for the title of 'great film' and I think that the above directors I listed met/meet that standard consistently with almost all their work, and with their own masterpieces have exceeded it.
As to the two Spielberg films on this list, CE3k I am happy with, though not above ET. To paraphrase someone else , CE3k has a wonderful first two thirds, but when we're expected to cheer on a man in his quest to destroy and abandon his family, I get angry and retreat from the film. Yes he is following his dreams, but he's not an adolescent, even if he is written as a traditional wandering-adolescent-adventure-hero-in-search-of-his-dreams, he has responsibilities and obligations, and I personnally think that a family is too important to cast aside; I dislike and am disturbed by the film, because I see nothing in the film that suggests we should feel horrified at what's going on, rather we're supposed to think it amusing when his wife leaves him when he's throwing dirt into their house. of all the Spielberg films I've seen, this is my least favorite so far, it has brilliant elements and I adore the first parts but, I can't stand the final outcome of the film. :frowning:
ET I've already said I believe should be higher up, It's my fifth favorite Spielberg film, but I'd probably say it is his third or fourth greatest film.
As you can probably tell I'm one of those people that believe that a movies entertainment value is an essential factor of it's greatness.
Adam

 

[Jason L.]

Man, you guys have no heart!

 

[Robert Crawford]

You and me, both! However, comedy is so subjective to one's individual's sense of humor that a joke can make one person laugh uncontrollably while making another wince in pain.



Crawdaddy

 

[David Dennison]

Great post, Adam. I really agree with your ET, Citizen Kane, and 2001 analysis. It sounds like you would have each of those ranked about the same spot as myself.

 

[Jay E]

Man, you guys have no heart!

I find heart in movies that create realistic situations with people I can identify with while not being overly manipulative, something I found lacking in E.T..
And for all those who feel that entertainment value is the main reason for rankings, 2001 is the most entertaining film I've ever seen. Oh wait, that doesn't fit into other people's definition of what an entertaining film is, I guess I'm pretentious:rolleyes. The fact that a movie can be entertaining to some while also offering deeper themes and complexities is beyond some people's understanding.
Watch out everyone, the entertainment police are here!

 

[Mark Zimmer]

80 Frankenstein (my 37) One of the two pictures that started the horror movie boom that still is with us, 70 years later (and the one of the two that still holds up today). A masterpiece of German Expressionism through a filter of British dark humor. Bride of Frankenstein is even better at this.
79 The Wild Bunch (72)
78 His Girl Friday (63)
77 The African Queen (48) Great Bogart, a bit out of character and humorous. Even Hepburn is tolerable. A good adventure with real heart to it.
76 E.T. the Extra-Terrestrial (93) In my opinion, this doesn't belong on the list at all. I saw it in 1982 and really have no desire ever to look at it again. Pap and sentiment, with the ill-advised "Penis-breath" bit itself taking it out of classic status for me (YOU try explaining to the mother of two impressionable young children where they learned this phrase....). Thumbs down.
75 The Philadelphia Story (83) An OK little comedy rescued mainly by Stewart. On reconsideration, I probably wouldn't have kept it on the list.
74 Manhattan (7) One of the most beautiful motion picture achievements ever, in both sight and sound, and it falls to #74? Sigh....and we haven't even gotten to the utterly miserable, no, execrable, The Apartment on this list yet? There is no hope...I can understand the queasiness about the Mariel Hemingway character holding it back, though, especially in light of past events.
73 It Happened One Night (70)
72 Pinocchio (17) Again, truly gorgeous, well-paced, terrific voice work from Ukelele Ike as Jiminy Cricket and excellent songs. One of the best from the Disney studios--one of the most beautiful animated films ever. This should rate higher.
71 Close Encounters of the Third Kind (66)

 

[Seth Paxton]

His Girl Friday

Please review the AFI list and get back to me on our list not appreciating comedy as much as the AFI.
2 of my favorites from this era are not even on this list - Arsenic and Old Lace and Animal Crackers - but I wonder if they were and HGF or Philadelphia Story were off the list because of them (or just lower) if people would still be as "receptive" to them as they are their own favorite comedies?
Every film on our total list had at least one voter championing it. But when considering everyone's tastes things didn't work out so well for some films, primarily comedies. They MADE the list out of respect, but the range of taste with comedies kept most of them from climbing to the top of the list.
I'll post the stats tonight which will show (again) how high and low each of these films went on individual lists.

 

[Seth Paxton]

but I do not think that Citizen Kane is THE MASTERPIECE it is made out to be

I couldn't disagree more. IMO, it brings together perhaps the best grouping of talent in the 3 big film art specific catagories - direction, cinematography, editing. Welles, Toland, and Wise were all masters of their crafts and Toland and Wise really showed this fact more than Welles did in other films (though Welles has several other strong direction efforts).

For me that translates to a flow and film structure that has been unsurpassed before or after. To me CK is a storytelling machine so precisely constructed that it rivals a Swiss watch.

I won't go on here since it's not a CK discussion thread and the film obviously is a long way from presentation on this list. I would say that saying CK tops lists just because people think it should is about as legitimate as saying people think that simply because they are sick of it topping the lists.

If I am to consider my love of the film to be a result of "programming", then certainly you must also consider your less than enthusiastic response to be do to backlash against it's constant praise.

It should be noted that the first time I ever sat down and watched the film properly front to back, no interruptions, I was blown away. Blown away as strongly as by any of my personal favs. My reaction was "oh, that's why people say it's so good" rather than the reaction others have of "what's the big deal".

I feel like that was an honest connection the film made with me, rather than me just following the herd.

 

[Evan Case]

As I'm at home all week for Thanksgiving and forgot to email myself my list, I can do one of two things here: post a marathon post in a week or two covering 20-30 films, or comment on these 10 if Seth can send me my list at my parent's house ([email protected]).
I know generally where I placed everything but I'm not entirely positive (I'd like to be accurate when delving in deeper).
Basic overview:
Frankenstein - had a bit lower, I think
Wild Bunch - Much higher (around 25)
His Girl Friday - perhaps a little higher but around there
African Queen - 10-15 lower, I think
E.T. - much higher (20s)
Philadelphia Story - only non-60s musical in my bottom 4 at #98; one of the few "classics" that doesn't work for me...unlike the endearing eccentrics of Bringing Up Baby, I find Grant & Hepburn rather spoiled and unlovable
Manhattan - Somewhere around there, my favorite Woody film
It Happened One Night - A bit lower, not among my favorite Capra's but still good
Pinocchio - way higher; the greatest animated narrative film, on par with Fantasia for artistry
Close Encounters - high 20s, low 30s. Adore it
Will be back with more in either a few days or a week +.
My sloppiest post ever.
Evan

 

[george kaplan]

Thanks for the insightful, well-thought out elucidation. :frowning: