DTS-ES Discrete vs. DTS-ES Matrix (1 Viewer)

[Scott_AH]

What's the difference between the decoding of a receiver that offers "DTS-ES Matrix compatibility" and that of a receiver that "DTS-ES Discrete" capability?

Scott

 

[Bill Will]

Just a real quick answer:

DTS ES "Matrix" Gets it's sound from the 2 rear speakers to create a rear center channel.

DTS ES "Discrete" The rear center speaker gets it's sound from a seperate track right off of the DVD.

The same goes for Dolby Digital EX it can be "Matrix" or "Discrete"

"Matrix" is what the old Dolby-Prologic system was.

 

[Chris Brown]

I don't believe there is a Dolby-EX Discrete format, only Matrix

 

[DanielSmi]

yeah, there's no discrete DD-EX. Are there certain receivers you are looking at which one has DTS-ES Matrix only and which has DTS-ES Discrete? Do they both have atleast 6ch of amplification? If so then the discrete one is prolly newer. Anyways, discrete is better than matrix. Matrix is made out of the surround channels and discrete is it's own channel with it's own sounds that isn't made out of the surround channels.

Daniel Smith

 

[Wes]

True, on a ES discrete the rear ES channel is discrete but the Surround L/R are sent through processing that removes the Mono in-phase matrix ES info even on 6.1! So it kind of takes the discrete out of discrete!

Wes

 

[DonT]

I find that hard to believe wes. i think that all theyd have to do is just simply not mix the mono surround channel info into the 6.1 discrete mix, just mix the surround mono info right into the back channel only.

 

[Wes]

I find that hard to believe wes. i think that all theyd have to do is just simply not mix the mono surround channel info into the 6.1 discrete mix, just mix the surround mono info right into the back channel only.

DTS ES 6.1 is not seven new channels compared to DTS 5.1. So all they have done is added one more discrete channel which is the ES channel. The 6.1 Surround L/R still are playing the 5.1's info which have the matrixed ES info in them(that is why if a ES sound track has 6.1 discrete it will always have the matixed). If ES Discrete is played with the new discrete channel with out any removal you will hear the exact same sounds in all three surround channels when the sound is intended for the ES channel! Just because the term "Matrix" is given to the EX and ES does not mean the EX/ES info will not be heard when played in 5.1, This is In-Phase mono info it is heard just not pulled apart and separated into the three channels.

Dobly Digital EX and Matrix ES goes through the same removal of the In-Phase info from the surround L/R channels just as Prologic removes to the main vocals out of the front L/R channels and then places it in the Center channel. Other wise you would have the main voices coming from all three front channels at equal volume.


I'm not down talking ES 6.1 just telling what has to happen in order to make it work.

Wes

 

[Joe Schwartz]

Wes is correct, Don. See this DTS document for more info:
http://www.dtsonline.com/dts-es2.pdf

 

[Wes]

Thanks Joe, I had never even read that or I would have just linked to it!
You know what would be cool, If DTS would make a soundtrack for a DVD that has a DTS 5.1 track and a separate mastered DTS 6.1 track to choose from(one that has already removed the correct amount of the mono in-phase info). Then and only then would DTS 6.1 be totally discrete and would probably sound even better.
Having two DTS tracks to choose from, Just dreaming!
Wes

 

[Scott_AH]

Great link Joe. Thanks for all the info everyone!

Scott

 

[DonT]

i stand corrected.

 

[Marty Neudel]

>a separate mastered DTS 6.1 track to choose from(one that has already removed the correct amount of the mono in-phase info).<

Wes,

the problem with this approach is that the ES decoder would still subtract the discrete back-channel (-3dB) from the left and right surrounds. This action is "hard-wired" into the specs.

Marty

 

[Wes]

the problem with this approach is that the ES decoder would still subtract the discrete back-channel

If the In-Phase Mono was not put in to the Surround L/R on that 6.1 track there would be nothing to remove. I do know there has to be a certain amount in order to blend with the ES channel, I'm not a sound engineer but believe it could work with a little better results.
But Heck, I'm happy with my Prologic decoder doing my matrixed EX/ES decoding!
Wes

 

[Marty Neudel]

>If the In-Phase Mono was not put in to the Surround L/R on that 6.1 track there would be nothing to remove.<

Wes,

even if the back-channel were not in the surrounds, the ES decoder would subtract it. DTS specs require the decoder to do this; and the decoders are wired to do this (although this could be overridden by commands in the stream).

Marty