Definitive Technology supercube reference (1 Viewer)

[Joe Wilmore]

Has anyone read the review in DVD Etc. regarding this subwoofer? The reviewer liked it better than the Velodyne HGS 18. I haven't heard of anyone purchasing one of these.

 

[Kevin C Brown]

I'd want to see distortion results first. People may argue as to the auditory effects of the servos in Velodyne subs, but less than 1-2% distortion is guarenteed. Some subs, at high SPLs and low freqs can get as bad as 40% THD.

*Theoretically*, because of the 3 14" drivers (2 passive, 1 active), the Def Tech should be OK in this regard. But me, myself, and I, I'd still want to see actual measurements.

 

[Jay McC]

Well, i can't really give you an opinion on the Supercube Reference because i bought the Supercube1 a couple of weeks before Definitive announced the Reference was available and the wife wasn't too keen on me returning it to get the Reference. "What's the point, the one we have is already too loud." was what she said. She just doesn't understand.

Anyway, i love the sub and i read the review of the Reference and i have to say they are not exagerating. My Supercube1 plays low, loud, and smoothe without needing to be corner loaded. Its heavy, nice to look at, won't take up half the room. And comes with excellent customer service and a good warranty (3 count 'em 3 years on the electronics). And if Definitive's claims are true about the Reference sub having the output of 4 Supercube1s well, you do the math.

 

[Brian Bunge]

*Theoretically*, because of the 3 14" drivers (2 passive, 1 active), the Def Tech should be OK in this regard.

I'm not sure I follow your logic. You have one powered driver and two passive radiators. What does that have to do with distortion levels?

 

[Kevin C Brown]

Area, simple area. Of course, you need driver travel too, but 14" x 3 is a lot of area.

 

[Brian Bunge]

Kevin,

You really can't count the PR's in the total Sd or Vd of the system because the actual active driver and PR's don't work in a linear fashion. They're simply resonators, much like a port. As you approach the tuning point of the system the PR's work harder and the driver works less. Which means at higher frequencies the driver is working more and the PR's less. The biggest difference between PR's and ports is that you don't have compression issues with the PR's down around the tuning frequency like you would with ports. The downside to PR's in increased costs and somewhat higher group delay vs. ported systems.

 

[terence]

This sub is rated to go down below 11hz! Did DVD ETC comfirm this claim?




The SuperCube® I & II have set new performance standards for high-output ultra-compact subwoofers. With the new SuperCube® Reference, Definitive sets new performance standards for subwoofers period! The Reference incorporates a 14" version of the 10" SuperCube® Technology driver pressure coupled to two 14" infrasonic radiators. All this is powered by an 1800-watt class D amplifier. The result is astounding high-definition bass performance extending effortlessly down below 11 Hz. Each SuperCube® Reference goes lower than and has dynamic impact and output capabilities almost equivalent to that of four SuperCube®I subwoofers combined. Slam, pace and rhythm are exemplary as is the ability to actually shake cement slab foundations. A complete complement of inputs and controls, including continuously variable level, high-pass, low-pass and phase controls, speaker and line level in and out, and LFE Direct in, are included on this surprisingly compact and stylish cube. The SuperCube® Reference will be available in piano-gloss black or golden cherry. Available Now!

Specifications: 16.7"W x 16.7"D x 16.9"H Frequency Response: 11 Hz-200Hz Driver Complement: One 14" long-throw subwoofer coupled to two - 14" infrasonic radiators Built-in Amplifier: 1800 watts Digitally-Coupled Class D Amplifier Low Pass Crossover: 24 dB/octave continuously adjustable variable (40-150 Hz) plus Unfiltered LFE direct coupled input High Pass Crossover: 12dB/octave continuously variable (40 to 150hz) Speaker level: 6 dB octave (80 Hz) Finish: Piano gloss black or golden cherry Weight: 111 lbs. Suggested Retail: $1699

 

[Brian Bunge]

It's not going to do 11Hz at any usable levels.

 

[Lewis Besze]

This sub is rated to go down below 11hz! Did DVD ETC comfirm this claim?

That would require measurments,since people can't hear that freq.But as Brian pointed out it would fail to deliver for sure.
My old Def Tech tower speakers were rated to 20hz but it was lucky to muster @35hz where after the level would drop like crazy.They rate their speakers very "optimistically" shall we say?

 

[terence]

Well fellas i was on another forum and read this guys post.

By: Raistlin_HT

I just browsed a review of the SuperCube Reference at Media Play last night. I believe it was the current issue of DVD etc.

I have never been a fan of their reviews (lack of data, and the I just don't like their scoring scheme), but they are generally written well. Their non-review articles is the their saving grace IMO.

Anyway, the reviewer actually pointed out the claimed 11Hz ... and said that he decided to make an exception and actually do some measurements.

Froma what I recall ... in normal placement, he was getting under 20Hz of usable bass ... and in corner placement, pretty much hitting the claimed 11 Hz.

He gave it a 99, and specifically stated that the only reason he didn't give it a 100 is because nothing is perfect. He basically said it was one of the best subs he's ever heard.

So the reviewer did take measurements.

 

[Kevin C Brown]

Brian- Yes, I do agree with everything you said. And I also realize that 1 active plus 2 passive 14"-ers don't equal 3 active 14"-ers, but it's still a lot of (effective ) area! But that's also why I buffered my statement in terms of also wanting some distortion measurements to make sure the low freq extension they are getting is clean too. Do I believe that the Def Tech plays as low and as loud and with as low distortion as the SVS PB2-plus, for example, which has also been measured to 11 Hz? I don't know, not until I see some more numbers.

 

[Lewis Besze]

So the reviewer did take measurements.

So where is it? Is it a graph like RTA?

 

[Brian Bunge]

Kevin, so basically we're saying the same thing. Gotcha.

As to the Def Tech having output to 11Hz, hell, I've measured 78dB at 10Hz with my Tumult from the listening position. Now ask me if I hear anything.

 

[terence]

So where is it? Is it a graph like RTA?

I'm thinking it's in the magazine, going by what the poster said the reviewer wanted to take measurements to see if the claim holds true.

 

[Michael R Price]

Now if a Tumult only goes to 78db at 10Hz, how loud can a Supercube go then? (Wait, was that a PR or sealed Tumult?)

My friend got interesting results with his huge Shiva subwoofer tuned to 11Hz... in a tiny room. It sounds awe-inspiring. The only problem is port noise.

 

[Brian Bunge]

Michael,

This is a sealed Tumult (53L) with an LT circuit and 800W of power. And this was not max SPL either. Other than a huge room mode at 45Hz, about a 92-93dB, the reponse was pretty much within + 5dB all the way out to 10Hz. And that's without hooking up my BFD yet.

 

[Lewis Besze]

I'm thinking it's in the magazine, going by what the poster said the reviewer wanted to take measurements to see if the claim holds true.

I figured as much, but someone who read that thing could at least post the figures and method it was gathered with.Without that it's just a "blowing in the wind".

 

[Kevin C Brown]

Brian- Yeah, I just wasn't explicit enough. I have a Vandersteen V2W, and I've measured it in my room flat to 21 Hz, and it's -6 dB at 20 Hz. So that's my curiousity in the new Def Tech (and the PB2+). Potentially looking at the "next" one that will go to 15 Hz or lower. I've had Def Tech mains in the past (liked them), but to be honest, they are *not* a company that I'd associate with low distortion, low freq, high output subs. Will be good to see more on this guy.

Lewis- The dude in DVD Etc just kind of talks about the measurements he did. What the heck, I'll put it here just so people will go out and buy their own copy of DVD Etc to see the rest of the review. (Some paraphrasing...)

The Def Tech SC Ref boasts a freq response of 11 to 200 Hz. Quite frankly, at first, I found this measurement listed on their spec sheet to be unbelievable. ... Whereas we typically do not measure eqp here at DVD Etc., I put the SC through the paces using a USAC bass test disc with freq sweeps from 5 to 200 Hz. ... Away from corners, the SC Ref generated audible output (perhaps psychological) beginning at 15 Hz consistently. Moving the unit into the corner produced astounding results, with audible output at 12 Hz.

So there you have it. I'll just add though, that what I think of as "audible output", means the -10 dB point. So I'd reckon it maybe doesn't go quite as low (and as loud) as the PB2+, but it does have a much higher WAF. The SVS is 18" w x 25" h x 28" d vs the more or less 17" cube of the Def Tech. But then again, you can't cheat physics and logic reinforces that a bigger box has the potential of going lower, and the SVS is still probably a little cheaper too. (You get a retail discount on the Def Tech, but no sales tax on the SVS but $100 for shipping.)

 

[Brian Bunge]

The Def Tech would never even be on my list if I were looking for a sub. I've always felt their specs were very generous to say the least. That and the fact that I'm not into the contemporary, gloss black finish would never allow it in my living room.

 

[Michael R Price]

Wait, "audible output" at 12-15Hz? I've listened to a clean 12Hz tone, and it is not in any way "audible." That means...