Could The Defenders Be Released on DVD? (1 Viewer)

[Johnny Angell]

I don't think he was complaining about the terminology but in terminating a life that was worth living.

Which is, of course, highly debatable ... and that episode incorporates such a debate, with the Prestons on opposite sides.

Perhaps it was debatable then, but certainly not now. I have just seen too many smiling faces on the downs kids to think their lives aren't worthwhile. Even back then, the testimony in the court revealed they were very loved by their mothers and Klugman's DA revealed he loved his downs brother very much.

 

[Buck Benny]

I don't think he was complaining about the terminology but in terminating a life that was worth living.

I was referring to the antiquated term "mongoloid" that Rick mentioned in his post. The term in the episode bothered me as well. That is a comletely different subject than the heinous murder of a newborn, that was the focus of the episode.

 

[Johnny Angell]

I was referring to the antiquated term "mongoloid" that Rick mentioned in his post. The term in the episode bothered me as well. That is a comletely different subject than the heinous murder of a newborn, that was the focus of the episode.

The term didn't bother me because I just adjusted for when the show was made. Certainly if it was used today, it would bother me. Maybe I'm confusing posts but I didn't think the term bothered him, but the misguided termination of a life did.

 

[Neil Brock]

The term didn't bother me because I just adjusted for when the show was made. Certainly if it was used today, it would bother me. Maybe I'm confusing posts but I didn't think the term bothered him, but the misguided termination of a life did.

There are many terms which were used 55 years ago when the show premiered which are not considered proper today. Mongoloid, retarded, negro, etc. The world changes and terminology changes with it. These were all in use when I was growing up so maybe that's why I don't find issue with hearing them in the context of a 1961 production.

 

[Johnny Angell]

There are many terms which were used 55 years ago when the show premiered which are not considered proper today. Mongoloid, retarded, negro, etc. The world changes and terminology changes with it. These were all in use when I was growing up so maybe that's why I don't find issue with hearing them in the context of a 1961 production.

I agree.

 

[Flashgear]

There are a great many terms we would hear on a relatively frequent basis in the early '60s...before the civil rights, women's liberation and youth popular culture revolution that was just over the horizon of 1961...this was the era of "Banned in Boston", "League of Decency", "Postal Inspectors", "Hotel Detective", "Commies"..."Dago", "Wop", "Kike", "Hebe", "Mic", "Bohunk" and various incarnations and invocations of the "N-word"..."Brown vs. Board of Education", Little Rock, " Freedom Riders", flags hung in Harlem saying "a Man was Lynched Today"... of "Overkill" and "Mutually Assured Destruction"...a different world it was, for better and worse...

 

[Flashgear]

I've finished the last two episodes of The Defenders season 1...

"Along Came a Spider" (May 5, 1962)...directed by Elliot Silverstein (Cat Ballou, Man Called Horse)...good to see such a young James Earl Jones in the opening scenes as a homicide detective in obvious authority and control of the crime scene...much as in an earlier episode ("The Best Defense") where Terry Carter also was cast as a police detective...surely among the earliest television depictions of Black law enforcement professionals...too bad that this is a rather unremarkable story and not a very good episode, in my opinion...it's about as memorable as an evening at the "Black Sheep Club" upon which the accused's alibi depends...and that cannot be verified by anyone's memory...we're left to wonder who the actual killer is...for about that millisecond where I was still interested...in cold war news, the day after this episode aired, the submerged American nuclear submarine USS Ethan Allen launched the first nuclear armed Polaris missile over the Pacific...where it's H-bomb armed warhead detonated at the fringe of outer space...a revolutionary step in the arms race and something for the Soviets to think about...

"The Broken Barrelhead" (May 26, 1962)...directed by David Greene (Godspell, Gray Lady Down)...a much better outing, but only elevated by some good scenes with Richard Jordan late in the episode...a over indulged rich kid, a Masseratti sports car and possible multiple vehicular homicide...Harold J. Stone makes for a detestable rich guy who feels everyone can be bought for a price, even Lawrence Preston, in which case he is very wrong indeed...the Preston's arrive at the State Police riding in another pricey ride...the New Yorker Town and Country wagon we last saw in "Empty Chute" is now replaced by a beautiful Chrysler Imperial LeBaron...in addition to apparently losing the delectable Joan Hackett, (I thought she was a net positive in her early appearances as Ken's girlfriend...their relationship kept in proportion to the more meaty legal and dramatic tangents of each case) Ken has also apparently lost the Triumph sports car for the Chrysler 300 he drives in this episode...I hope he isn't going corporate, ha, ha...Lawrence Preston opens the defense with an early attempt at the "Affluenza Defense", the story soon diverting into a jury tampering angle...a good, but not great episode, in my opinion...the week this first aired, Marilyn Monroe sang "happy birthday to you" in a breathy and sexy rendition to President Kennedy before a cozy crowd of about 15000 at Madison Square Garden...Stan Musial broke Honus Wagner's NL career hit record...and in cold war news, although it was completely Top Secret at the time, Nikita Kruschev and the central presidium of the the supreme Soviet decided to send the first Nuclear warheads to Cuba...by October when they were discovered by the U-2, there would be about 95 Russian atomic bombs in Cuba...as we all stood on the precipice of thermonuclear war...

Overall, I have enjoyed season 1 of The Defenders tremendously...of the 32 episodes, I think that about 9 are absolutely great...I'm judging with somewhat strict and challenging criteria here, and as with everyone, it's subjective on many levels...another 6 Very good episodes...maybe another 6 good episodes, often featuring at least one very good featured performance or single outstanding and memorable scene...7 fair episodes that are forgettable...and, regrettably, 4 stinkers...all in all, a very good ratio for any series, especially considering that our TV scholars here insist that The Defenders only got much stronger in season 2 to 4...these are my lists...

Great episodes:

Quality of Mercy
The Young Lovers
The Man With the Concrete Thumb
The Attack
The Best Defense
The Point Shaver
The Hickory Indian
The Naked Heiress
The Benefactor

Very Good episodes:

Perjury
The Search
The Empty Chute
The Crusader
The Iron Man
Reunion With Death

Good episodes:

Killer Instinct
Death Across the Counter
The Accident
The Bedside Murder
Storm at Birch Glen
The Broken Barrelhead

Fair (blah) episodes:

The Riot
The Boy Between
Hundred Lives of Henry Simms
The Trial of Jenny Scott
The Treadmill
The Prowler
The Last Six Months

Stinkers:

Gideon's Follies
The Locked Room
The Tarnished Cross
Along Came a Spider

I would really like everyone's own rankings to consider also...mine are entirely subjective and open to your critique...as with all of you, I Dearly Hope that Shout will give us seasons 2, 3, 4...

 

[Stephen Bowie]

in addition to apparently losing the delectable Joan Hackett, (I thought she was a net positive in her early appearances as Ken's girlfriend...their relationship kept in proportion to the more meaty legal and dramatic tangents of each case)

Hackett turns up one more time in the second season, but it's a classic example of a character being too far outside the central setting and storytelling of the show to be of much use. (Judging from her credits, Hackett seems to have moved to L.A. by 1962, which may have limited her availability.) They did add Rosemary Forsyth as a love interest for Kenneth Preston for two episodes in the final season, but that obviously didn't take either. One of my Plautus sources claimed this was because Robert Reed's effeminacy bothered Brodkin (and/or the network) and they wanted to remind the audience that Ken wasn't gay.

I think the only masterpieces in the first season are "The Attack," "The Best Defense," "The Hickory Indian," and "The Benefactor." But there's a substantial second tier that would include "Killer Instinct," "The Boy Between," "The Hundred Lives of Harry Simms," "The Accident," "The Man with the Concrete Thumb," "The Prowler," "Gideon's Follies," "The Locked Room," "The Iron Man," and "The Last Six Months." The worst episodes (of the whole series, not just the first season) are probably "The Point Shaver," "The Tarnished Cross," and "Reunion with Death."

 

[FanCollector]

I wasn't as organized as you in my assessments, but most of your lists look about right to me. I thought much higher of The Locked Room and moderately higher of Along Came a Spider, Harry Simms, Jenny Scott, Killer Instinct and The Treadmill. Jenny Scott was hampered for me by the solution being evident even before the opening credits, but I enjoyed Pat Hingle's guest performance a lot, and got the sense that Marshall was having a good time also. Conversely, I was much less impressed than you by The Young Lovers and The Point Shaver.

Your point about James Earl Jones and Terry Carter portraying black characters in law enforcement without undue emphasis on the point is worth noting. Later in the series, Ossie Davis becomes one of the more frequent ADAs, taking it a step further.

Stephen, thanks for the Plautus insight. I see Joan Hackett as the Elizabeth Miller of the series. A good actress and a potentially interesting character, but the show just took a different turn.

In your research, did you have the opportunity to see most or all of the rest of the series? Very jealous, if so. Or are you just assuming (and it's probably not a bad assumption) that the show simply couldn't do worse than The Tarnished Cross?

 

[Stephen Bowie]

I've seen the whole run, yes. Almost ten years ago, but I had the foresight to take good notes (even though I'm usually lazier than I should be about that).

 

[Flashgear]

Thanks for that info Stephen...thank you Lee for your great input...with the conventional romance element, there certainly is a fine line that can't be crossed on a show that held social commentary and legal drama as it's narrative core...and from what I've seen, The Defenders held that in an appropriate way...I thought Hackett was effective in a limited but complimentary role in episodes like Quality of Mercy, The Accident and especially, Man with the Concrete Thumb...some of my episode rankings might change on another viewing, all manner of subjective factors come into play...and I certainly value yours, especially considering your deep knowledge of the show...Reunion with Death I thought was at least a credible scenario in the subset of informal kangaroo court episodes...perhaps it was the closing scene with Robert Webber that persuaded me...I'm surprised that you would rate The Point Shaver so lowly...with at least one episode,(Naked Heiress) I bumped it up to one of my favorites solely on the basis of what I thought was Salome Jens great performance...as it really touched me in it's authenticity...I would have loved to share that park bench in Riverside Park near Grant's Tomb with her...ha, ha...

I've always liked Joan Hackett's memorable performance as Charlton Heston's love interest in Will Penny...and she's very good also in the notable Alfred Hitchcock Hour "Beast in View"...

I hope we get season two of The Defenders...I am intrigued and want to see Larry Cohen's The Noose with Larry Hagman and Bruce Gordon...topical and inflammatory if it was set in 1963 Mississippi or anywhere else in the south...episodes like that and season one's The Benefactor leave me wondering how many affiliates peeled off from airing them first run...also looking forward to more Cohen in season three's The Captive with Andrew Duggan...and The Secret with Martin Landau...season four's The Go Between with Arthur Hill and Phylis Thaxter...Unwritten Law with Kim Hunter and Jessica Walter...etc...etc...

 

[Stephen Bowie]

"The Noose" is a lynching story, but it's kind of a cop-out; I guess they weren't allowed to include a racial angle in such an inflammatory context. Kinoy's "Blood County" is a more indirect and effective allegory for violence against civil rights activists.

 

[jperez]

I wasn't as organized as you in my assessments, but most of your lists look about right to me. I thought much higher of The Locked Room and moderately higher of Along Came a Spider, Harry Simms, Jenny Scott, Killer Instinct and The Treadmill. Jenny Scott was hampered for me by the solution being evident even before the opening credits, but I enjoyed Pat Hingle's guest performance a lot, and got the sense that Marshall was having a good time also. Conversely, I was much less impressed than you by The Young Lovers and The Point Shaver.

Your point about James Earl Jones and Terry Carter portraying black characters in law enforcement without undue emphasis on the point is worth noting. Later in the series, Ossie Davis becomes one of the more frequent ADAs, taking it a step further.

Stephen, thanks for the Plautus insight. I see Joan Hackett as the Elizabeth Miller of the series. A good actress and a potentially interesting character, but the show just took a different turn.

In your research, did you have the opportunity to see most or all of the rest of the series? Very jealous, if so. Or are you just assuming (and it's probably not a bad assumption) that the show simply couldn't do worse than The Tarnished Cross?

Can you clarify the 'Elizabeth Miller" mention? Was that a secondary character in another series? At first, i thought Hacketts' role in The Defenders would develop into a regular character in an attempt to humanize and provide a personal and sentimental background for one of the protagonists, similar to Nancy Malone's Livvy in Naked City, where it worked very well, I think.
On the other hand, Gena Rowland also appeared in a few episodes at the start of 87th Precinct, as the (deaf) wife of protagonist and police investigator Robert Lansing, but she disappeared for the rest of this ione-season series from 1961-62.

 

[FanCollector]

Sorry! I was referring to Barney Miller, on which Barbara Barrie played the title character's wife. When the series began, the idea was to follow Barney from his home to the precinct. With that format in mind, Ms. Barrie was given good billing and expected to be in every episode. After a few shows, however, the series famously changed to a single location for virtually every segment, and there was just no place for a wife. The producers liked the actress and the character, but all they could manage was a visit once or twice a year because it just didn't make sense to see her all the time in the modified format.

I think Joan Hackett just didn't fit what The Defenders was doing as it progressed. Naked City does illustrate the other way it could have gone, but I think The Defenders chose to favor the father/son relationship instead. Also, and maybe not everyone agrees, but I do think that Burke and Malone had more engaging chemistry than Reed and Hackett.

 

[Flashgear]

My one and only reservation about the excellent and powerful The Benefactor is that all of the best performances in that episode are delivered by men...in my opinion, two out of the three women featured players are weak, if not inept (other than the expert witness sociologist actress who is effective)...the teenager and fashion model characters...especially the Jackie Kennedy type projection of the fashion model...irritating in the demanding context of this story, out of their depth in this sharp company...still, these failings are not fatal to the powerful story and compelling drama...I just thought what wonders a young Gena Rowlands or Anne Bancroft could have done with it...

 

[jim_falconer]

Wonderful discussions going on here the last few days. Couple of questions /observations:

- I see mention of a show called 87th precinct. Does this show have a similar writing / acting vein as The Defenders? By that i mean does it deliver the same emotional wallop of The Defenders? If so, I'll order a set.

- re Along Came A Spider. This episode could have been so intense, if the writers could have written in some deep dark secret that was only discovered at the end of the show, for the reason why the little girl was acting the way she was. As it turned out, a very weak episode indeed.

- Giddeons Follies seems so out of place with the other episodes. It's almost like you're not watching the same show. On a scale of 1 - 10, that episode gets a zero.

- everyone has their own opinions of course, but The Point Shaver is one of the top10 episodes of season 1. The final minutes of that show was the only time I really got choked up thru any of the episodes.

- The Quality Of Mercy sets the tone for what we are about to embark upon for the rest of season 1. Not sure if there was ever a better opening episode to any show. Incredibly gripping. It would seem almost impossible to achieve more than this show offers, and yet it is accomplished.

I think the day I read that season 2 has been announced, I'll do cartwheels in my backyard for hours

 

[jperez]

Wonderful discussions going on here the last few days. Couple of questions /observations:

- I see mention of a show called 87th precinct. Does this show have a similar writing / acting vein as The Defenders? By that i mean does it deliver the same emotional wallop of The Defenders? If so, I'll order a set.

- re Along Came A Spider. This episode could have been so I ntense, if the writers could have written in some deep dark secret that was only discovered at the end of the show, for the reason why the little girl was acting the way she was. As it turned out, a very weak episode indeed.

- Giddeons Follies seems so out of place with the other episodes. It's almost like you're not watching the same show. On a scale of 1 - 10, that episode gets a zero.

- everyone has their own opinions of course, but The Point Shaver is one of the top10 episodes of season 1. The final minutes of that show was the only time I really got choked up thru any of the episodes.

- The Quality Of Mercy sets the tone for what we are about to embark upon for the rest of season 1. Not sure if there was ever a better opening episode to any show. Incredibly gripping. It would seem almost impossible to achieve more than this show offers, and yet it is accomplished.

I think the day I read that season 2 has been announced, I'll do cartwheels in my backyard for hours

87th Precinct was a good police procedural series from the 1961'62 season, based on Ed McBain's novels, and it's pretty good and sometimes compared to The Naked City due its grit and realism. The scripts based on McBain's stories are particularly fine and Robert Lansing is a great actor. But its setback is that it doesn't use the intensive location shooting in New York City that gave The Naked City its main look.

 

[FanCollector]

87th Precinct is a good show, but it's not really like The Defenders. Do you like M Squad? That's probably a more analogous show.

 

[Jack P]

87th Precinct is solid I felt, but does as noted suffer from being a studio-bound show or doing locations that are always in those generic CA environs compared to "Naked City's" location photography. "M Squad" had location shooting in Chicago but you see it more for the transition scenes of Lee Marvin going from one place to another.

 

[jim_falconer]

Thanks for all the comments on 87th precinct..sorry to hear it's based in NYC but doesn't utilize the surroundings. Think I'll still get it though...