Beyond the Movie: LOTR on DVD (1 Viewer)

[David Lambert]

How about the mystical jedi force in star wars?

My wife's stepdad was over until about an hour ago. I showed him this thread and we discussed how Star Wars had been banned a few years back for the very reason you cite.
No matter how insane you think it is, someone's already thought of it...seriously!
How 'bout we get this thread back on-topic now?

 

[DmitriP]

I showed him this thread and we discussed how Star Wars had been banned a few years back for the very reason you cite.
From where?
It must be nice to have the power to program the masses..

 

[David Lambert]

Dmitri, I'm not sure what exact question you're asking when you say "from where?".
If you mean "Where was there a church that banned Star Wars", the answer is "Right here in Memphis, TN and vicinity". By "vicinity", I include towns in Arkansas and Missisippi as well...I think Alabama got mentioned, too.
We're in the so-called Bible Belt, and many local ministers told their congregations that they would burn in hell for watching/supporting Star Wars, because the Jedi powers represented magic, which was devil-borne and evil.
I have no idea if this information made the national news, but it probably did...this sort of thing tends to. I have no idea how other churches in other areas of the country or world reacted to it, or if there was any direction from, say, Bishops or The Pope or whatever.
I'm not a church-goer myself, so I just wasn't affected other than the circumstance of living in a community where ideas might be censored in some form or another. I obviously supported the movie by being there on opening day, as with Lord of the Rings and Harry Potter.
Do ya' want me to see if I can dig up a newspaper article on it? I'd rather not, but if you feel the need for me to further validate all of this, I'll try to.

 

[Sutjahjo Ngaserin]

DmitriP,

When a church ban a "film" or a "book", they can't really do anything but make a declaration (like a muslim Fatwa) which the church expect their congregation to follow but has no other way to enforce the ban. Most who follow blindly will obey while some will just watch the film quietly without telling their fellow members that they "watched the film" or "read the book".

When a school imposed a ban however, the consequences can be more serious as specific books are removed from school library and students caught with the books in school premises CAN be punished by the school including expulsion (generally detention or some other kind of deprivation or shaming act)

Jaw

 

[Mark-W]

I just started reading the final versions of the
LOR books that Tolkien approved for publication,
and in the introduction, he clearly states that the
stories are not to be taken for metaphors for the
religious/political issues at the time of their
writing.
Having said this, who does not write from the
place that inspires him, his larger world view
and spirituality?
Certainly Christianity should NOT be a turn off
for these films if they indeed contain a thread
of that.
What is wrong with containing Christian elements?
Did that hurt Shadowlands at the box office?
I am religously ambivalent myself,
but I have no qualms with leaving texts as
they are: be they Christian, pagan, or Satanic
in inspiration.
Heck, C.S. Lewis's The Screwtape Letters
is a book I wildly enjoyed, and the whole book is
very overt in its Christianity.
Also, the studio sword cuts both ways.
If you haven't heard, the lastest Russell Crowe
film, A Brillian Mind omits all
references to real life man's bisexuality, which
was more than just a footnote in his life.
(It would be a bit like Hollywood doing a film
of Ron Epstien's life, and omitting his time
at hometheaterforum.!)
So, it happens all the time.
Mark

 

[DaViD Boulet]

From the LOTR Book, copyrighted 1966, taken from the Forward written by Tolkien (my father purchased this book in 1972):

...As for any inner meaning or 'message', it has in the intention of the author none. It is neither allegorical nor tipical. As the story grew it put down roots (into the past) and threw out unexpected branches; but its main theme was settled from the outset by the inevitable choice of the Ring as the link between it and The Hobbit...

...Other arrangements could be devised according to the tastes or views of those who like allegory or topical reference. But I cordially dislike allegroy in all its manifestations, and always have done so since I gew old and wary enough to detect its presence. I much prefer history, true or feigned, with its varied applicability to the thought and experience of readers. I think that many confuse 'applicability' with 'allegory'; but the one resides in the freedom of the reader, and the other in the purposed dominiation of the author.

An author cannot of course, remain wholly unafffected by his experience, but the ways in which a story-germ uses the soil of experience are extremely complex, and attempts to define to process are at best guesses from evidence that is inadequate and ambiguous...

I personally felt I saw a very strong "allegory" with the Christian Story in LOTR, but I suppose it was "applicability" that I was, within my "freedom," allowed to see, and not something manifested by the intent of Tolkien directly.

Even though Tokien himself didn't intend to write his stories as an allegory (see above quote), it seems to me that his religious beliefs were instrumental in shaping the world of good and evil that he's created -- his "experience" he himself would not deny was a contributive element of his story.

-dave

 

[Jimmy Nugent]

In my opinion, the common denominator in regards to religion/christianity and Tolkien's Rings saga is that they are both steeped in fantasy. That is the only correlation I can draw between the two.

Back to the subject at hand- I will definitely be tuning in to National Geo Explorer on the 28th for the repeat of the show to tide me over til it's official DVD release in February.

Let the debate rage...

Jimmy

 

[DaViD Boulet]

In my opinion, the common denominator in regards to religion/christianity and Tolkien's Rings saga is that they are both steeped in fantasy.

Not quite sure how one is supposed to take that comment.

In any case I'll give you a few of the similarities I drew:

Frodo, who is by all outward appearances not a kingly or warrior character, is never the less elected to carry the burden of saving the population of his world from falling into a dominion of darkness.

The Christian parallel is that you have the figure of Christ, who enters the world as a poor-man's child born in a stable, enters Jerusalem riding on a donkey, and is likewise responsible for redeming the race of men from (spiritual) destruction.

The Ring is a known power of evil that cannot be destroyed by human craft, but instead must be "unmade" in the same fires in which it was created. Playing by Sauron's own rules, if you will. The Christian parallel is that you have a race of men with a sinful nature that are incapable of purging or "forgiving" themselves. Christ must sacrifice himself in place of us, to break the "bargin" of sin man made with Satan in the fall of Eden...there's no way around this ultimate sacrifice just like there's only one way to destroy the ring that takes Frodo to end of a very severe journey.

There certainly isn't a 1 for 1 correlary going on here. As was mentioned in the quote from Tolkien himself, this was the farthest thing from his mind. My only point was that the struggle of a messiah figure to rid middle earth from the evil powers of the ring and its master probably draws in some way from Tolkien's own beliefs about Christ and his significance in freeing mankind from the bondage of sin, slavery, and death.

 

[derek]

A nice article on Tolkien's/Lord of the Rings Christian ties can be found at
http://www.cbn.com/living/entertainm...heringsCNS.asp

 

[WoodyH]

Not quite sure how one is supposed to take that comment.

However one may be supposed to take it, it seems to me to be dangerously close to the type of inflammatory comment that could get this thread closed. So far the conversation has managed to avoid tumbling too far into the forbidden areas of discussion, I for one would like to see it stay that way.
Anyway...Derek and Luiz, thanks for the links, interesting stuff. It's been ages since I've actually read LotR, so I don't remember it closely enough to make much of a personal judgement of the underlying themes in the books, but I can't say I'd be overly suprised. I never knew about the friendship between C. S. Lewis and Tolkein, though...interesting stuff.
Now, back to the (theoretical) topic on hand - just how is this documentary? The propaganda that was originally posted looks interesting enough, and Nat. Geo. generally does some good shows - can anyone who's seen this give it a or ?

 

[Jimmy Nugent]

However one may be supposed to take it, it seems to me to be dangerously close to the type of

inflammatory comment that could get this thread closed.

There is absolutely nothing inflammatory about it. As I stated: it is simply and observation "in my opinion".

Everyone else is free to express their opinions regarding the correlation between religion/christianity and the Tolkien saga, so why should my opinion be seen as an "inflammatory comment"?

There is no right or wrong, just an endless expanse of grey area.

Jimmy