Apple's January 27, 2010 Media Event Discussion Thread (1 Viewer)

[Nelson Au]

Ron, not accusing you of this, but the hype was from the media who were all clamoring with their idea of what this new product would be. Everyone else thought it would be a tablet with a phone and e-reader and kitchen sink!

So it's unfair to Apple for not delivering the goods!

I hoped it would be a tablet too! But I wasn't disappointed, it was what I was expecting. I think one of the first markets for this is the e-reader. I think my parents would be perfect, they still love to read the newspaper and have no internet access. They dropped cell phone usage years ago too. So if they'd have wi-fi access or would sign-up for 3g, this would be great. And ii it can download foreign language newspapers and periodicals, they'd enjoy that!

And no surprises from my avatar, but this pad is like the PADDs on Star Trek! Info retrieval device, small computer and content creation device!

 

[Carlo_M]

I will say this: the publishing industry is hurting badly. This device might be initially championed not so much by a user base, but by publishers and content providers. This represents an entirely new revenue stream in a similar manner that iTunes did for the music industry.

Perhaps that was Jobs' strategy the whole way? Make the device for the content provider (not necessarily only for the consumer) and let them provide desirable content which will sell the device, as opposed to the device selling the content?

It's true that as of now I can't think of a reason to own this, but once the publishers really start making unique/added value content for this, I could quickly find myself changing my tune.
A real world possible example: Financial Times already charges for web-content on their site. New York Times has announced that beginning later this year or early next, they will follow FT's model. So if people are going to have to start paying for that content, why not do so on a device where you can take it anywhere and everywhere, instead of on a computer where you have to log in, etc. etc.

Up-and-coming novelists could enter this realm as well, with fewer pub houses taking a chance on lesser known authors, they could begin publishing short stories, excerpts, etc. just like musicians do on the web. Except the DRM on the iPad will allow them to make revenue from this venture. They could start with a few chapters free and then $0.99 each additional chapter, you see where this is going.

So again, not a home run for me, but I think it would be a mistake to write off this device based on today's information.

 

[mattCR]

I have no idea where this product fits in with anything, really..

Just some thoughts:

It's double as expensive as the cheapest Kindle. More expensive then the largest kindle. You stil have a monthly data fee (Kindle does not) . While somehow Amazon gives away 3G via ATT, Apple isn't, while no contract, there is a fee..

There isn't a standout feature here that makes me say "oh my god! So incredible!" that I can book a feature to really make it stand out in a crowd.

iPad is maybe the worst name for Apple ever.. all I can think of is iTampon. Yes, I realize that's crass, but god, couldn't they have went with iTablet or something? iPad? Really???

Despite the idea as said before "think of the applications, like medical tablets" ... er.. no. One thing I can guarantee you is that will never happen. Why? Because out of all the medical management software, how much runs on an apple? None. Exactly none. Not that it couldn't, but because there isn't enough money and resources in that market to do it. And the iPad isn't giong to encourage development on that front because it lacks the one thing tablet laptops have.. the ability to whip around and type. Yes, touch screens are great. You try keying in even generic drugs on a touch screen. Nurses will beat you senseless trying to do that with say: "mercaptopurine systemic". Or "oxcarbazepine systemic" forget it. They don't have all day.

It single tasks (one program at a time) so no multitasking.

It has no external file base, so whatever you do in iWork, they haven't shown a way for it to go anywhere but there unless you mail it off, because basically no printer level support, so you aren't going to a printer of any type.. which makes (to me) the work you do in Brushes/iWork a total gimmick.

..
This seems like a beefed up itouch with a locked in application base (no unapproved third party apps, no independent OS, no OSX) so you're locked in.
With maybe the worst product name in history. I mean, worst product name in history. I can picture all the jokes now "so, Tim, on the iPad today?"

 

[mattCR]

 

[DaveF]

Take a few hours off to actually get some work done and the thread escapes me

It's basically what I expected: an $800, "i"-branded, 10" iPod Touch with 3G service, iWork for full-"computer" use and a new online media store. But what to make of the it?

Consider the home user, the netbook user. What do they do? Surf the web. Write emails. Update Facebook. Watch YouTube videos. Maybe a little bit of "office"-y work for their Lions Club. You don't need a powerhouse for this; which is why these runty little netbooks are gaining popularity. Even a mere phone can do all this now.

So give a user those features. Make it svelte, a pound and a half, 10+ hours battery life (no grumbling at the laptop for conking out after two hours), and price it in netbook category. What's not to like?

What else? This is my perfect computer when I'm on vacation and visiting family. I would love to have this when on business travel -- watching a 10" HD movie on a plane with no battery worries? Catching my TV shows in the hotel?

At $499 for the entry version, I can imagine buying this for kids. They can get to their Webkinz site. They can do their schoolwork with iWork. Even play games, listen to music, watch movies. Maybe even read a book!

Put my money where my mouth is? No, not yet. I need an iPhone. I need handheld, ubiquitous web. And I'm two years from a new computer. But, if I honestly assess what I use my MacBook Pro for, I admit that the iPad, as is, does 90% of it.

But I have two standing worries.
First, remains data entry. Can I type like I am now for forums? Is it easy to make a Toastmasters agenda or Flyer in Pages like I do now? Is it as easy to hold and read on the couch as my MacBook Pro is?

Second, is backup. This wouldn't be a third device for me, but a laptop replacement. Where is SuperDuper! or Time Machine for it? If it's still fundamentally an extension to my laptop, then it's a too expensive toy.

But in the two years until I'd be ready to buy my next computer, this will only be more useful, more robust, more versatile.

The first-gen iPhone was, to me, inadequate. The 3GS is an object of lust. And, sight unseen, the next rev is almost a necessity.

How much more "necessary" will the iPad be in its third iteration?

 

[mattCR]

Just so we can get something out of the way before it goes farther:

Consider the home user, the netbook user. What do they do? Surf the web. Write emails. Update Facebook. Watch YouTube videos. Maybe a little bit of "office"-y work for their Lions Club. You don't need a powerhouse for this; which is why these runty little netbooks are gaining popularity. Even a mere phone can do all this now.

The iPad doesn't support flash. So, there is no Youtube or any real game or app on Facebook. Those functions are out.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/01/27/AR2010012702876.html

Also covered here:

http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/27/live-from-the-apple-tablet-latest-creation-event/

This basically means: No Hulu, no Youtube, no Scrabble on Facebook, no free flash games...

And, realistically, at a 1Ghz processor, it's likely because Adobe doesn't have a plugin developed for the OS. iPhone had a much larger installed base, and Adobe had no interest. That's likely to be the same here. So, it's not likely to be ever Flash ready. 1Ghz is below the Flash minimums.

 

[Walter Kittel]

John Gruber on Apple and Flash...

http://daringfireball.net/2010/01/apple_adobe_flash

- Walter...

 

[don monteith]

Now that was one of the funniest things I have seen in a long while.

I was really excited about a new device from Apple today as well. Unfortunately, this is not what I was hoping for. Now if they would come out with this form factor with a real computer inside that can run my applications, I will be all over it. Say, a MacBook Air without the keyboard. Looks great, light weight and lots of power. Luckily CES had a lot of nice tablet style computers coming out real soon. I think the reason they didn't name the iPad the iTablet is because then people would compare it to the other actual Tablet PC's that run an actual OS. Oh well, maybe next time.

 

[DaveF]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mattCR

Just so we can get something out of the way before it goes farther:

The iPad doesn't support flash. So, there is no Youtube or any real game or app on Facebook. Those functions are out.

It does YouTube. (Go to 10:25 AM) So does the iPhone.

Games? Download a free game from the appStore. Or buy Scrabble for $4.99.

Like I said, and which your post ironically supports, this does everything the casual / normal user wants.

 

[DaveF]

Surprised the screen is not widescreen HD (1280x720), but the lower 4:3 XGA 4:3 resolution (1024x768)

 

[Ken Chan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mattCR ">[/url]

And the iPad isn't giong to encourage development on that front because it lacks the one thing tablet laptops have.. the ability to whip around and type. Yes, touch screens are great. You try keying in even generic drugs on a touch screen. Nurses will beat you senseless trying to do that with say: "mercaptopurine systemic". Or "oxcarbazepine systemic" forget it. They don't have all day. [/QUOTE]
Speech recognition. You say it, it pops up the handful of close matches, and you touch the right one; even faster. Or some other interesting, innovative way.

[QUOTE]Originally Posted by mattCR [url=/forum/thread/297218/apple-s-january-27-2010-media-event-discussion-thread/120#post_3654476][img]">[/url]

It has no external file base, so whatever you do in iWork, they haven't shown a way for it to go anywhere but there unless you mail it off[/QUOTE]
Reported elsewhere:

[QUOTE]

 

[Sam Posten]

Just because it says its a 1ghz core machine doesn't mean diddley. It's a 1Ghz custom ARM processor running on an OS that was designed for it, not an Intel struggling with 40 years of bad design decisions on an OS that has 30 years of cruft.

And honestly, the sooner we leave Flash behind the better. Good on Apple for making a stand on this. And sticking to it.

 

[Ronald Epstein]

Ron, not accusing you of this, but the hype was from the media who were all clamoring with their idea of what this new product would be.

Nelson, had a bunch of things to do tonight
but wanted to make certain I responded to
this.

You are 100% spot-on correct. The media
is responsible for making this iPad bigger
than it actually was.

For almost a year we heard rumor after
rumor about what this device would be.
I wonder what Steve Jobs was thinking as
he read speculation after speculation. Does
he get a kick out of it or does he get
frustrated that it won't live up to people's
expectations?


In any case -- you are right. Everybody
had their own take on what this device
would be except Apple who kept their lips
sealed (as usual) right up until announcement
day.

 

[Sam Posten]

You guys who think that HP/Microsoft are going to come out with something compelling haven't been paying attention to the last 30 years either.
http://www.crunchgear.com/2010/01/26/hp-shows-off-its-slate-computer-while-revealing-a-key-disappointing-detail-windows/

Yay, we layered poor touch commands ontop of a crufty operating system as a hack just to get something fast into the marketplace that sucks a little bit less than Surface.

Android might have been a champion of this too, but they also chose to not embrace taste and user experience, going for the lowest common denominator of an OS designed by a committee without someone at the top who knows that the most important job isnt adding features but deciding what to leave out.

 

[DaveF]

The more I contemplate this device -- for example, after explaining it to my wife and describing it's possible place in our household -- the more intrigued I am.

Ron comments that it's not a "computer". I know what he means. But, respectfully, both semantically and practically that is wholly wrong.

It has (arguably) the most modern, fastest web browser. Email. A complete office suite that can compete with MS Word / Excel / Powerpoint for home and business use. It plays games, perhaps on par with Nintendo's Gameboy juggernaut. It's a complete media center, with music, movies, and literature. It runs a broad library of 3rd party software. And, unlike almost every other "computer", it has a ubiquitous internet connection.

And it's priced to move, cheaper than much of the HTF stuff everyone here buys without second thought

I've moved into the "this is cool" camp. I wish I could buy one, just for kicks. As it is, I can imagine a starring role for this in my future computer upgrades.

This won't take over the world tomorrow. But I predict it will be a fair -- but not yet smashing -- success.

 

[nolesrule]

Underwhelming. You can buy a Dell netbook and put snow leopard on it for less, and you'd be able to do more (you know, not restricted to iTunes/App store). It's essentially a large screen iPod Touch.

 

[Ted Todorov]

Originally Posted by mattCR
It's double as expensive as the cheapest Kindle. More expensive then the largest kindle. You stil have a monthly data fee (Kindle does not) . While somehow Amazon gives away 3G via ATT, Apple isn't, while no contract, there is a fee..

This is just silly. You don't have to have a monthly data fee with the iPad, and it has WiFi which the Kindle does not. The 3G data plan on the Kindle allows you to do exactly one thing -- download books. Not very useful. The new Kindle SDK -- if your app ends up using more then something absurd like 20KB worth of data per month, Amazon will send you, the developer, the bill for each and every user who goes over. And let me repeat, the Kindle doesn't have WiFi, which essentially means that it has no data connection at all.

And the Kindle DX, which costs $489 vs. $499 for the iPad has 3.3GB user accessible storage vs. 16GB for the iPad and the Kindle is an eBook reader. Period. The Kindle right now looks like a big joke to anyone not obsessed with the goodness of eInk.

 

[mattCR]

Originally Posted by DaveF

Quote:

It does YouTube. (Go to 10:25 AM) So does the iPhone.

Games? Download a free game from the appStore. Or buy Scrabble for $4.99.

Like I said, and which your post ironically supports, this does everything the casual / normal user wants.

Somehow, there seems to be a disconnect here. Yes, as I said, Youtube has a stream as java option which has always worked for phones. Hulu, of course, doesn't, it's flash only. Websites like MSNBC, CBS (which they showed) ESPN.. etc.. flash. Even HomeTheaterForum has had components/ads in flash. Flash is one of those great open formats. So, while it's convenient dismiss, it's an open format.

And while I can buy Scrabble for $5 from the Appstore, playing a universally ranked version via facebook --for free-- seems a bit of a better deal, and a much larger userbase to connect to. And while I don't play many of the other flash powered games (see: Farmville) a ton of other people do.

So, it's convenient for apple to say "no" to flash.. and we can praise them for it; but it doesn't deny that it's a recognized open-format with tons of supporters, and tons of content.

I'm not sure what challenger to it apple has lined up, unless they intend to start backing Microsoft's Silverlight. Because there really isn't anything more then that.
As to the "1Ghz doesn't mean anything" It's true, and we can guffah at Intel's 20 year architecture (then again, be careful with that, all of Apple is now Intel on the desktop side and that isn't changing). So, you have a smaller app base and Adobe would need to re-write their player for it. Odds of that happening.. well, it's aparently not, because core level applications aren't allowed. Which is good from a stability viewpoint, especially for a device that can't multitask.

I think it's easy to say "well, you hate Macs" I have two in my house, I own an iPod touch.. I have nothing against Apple. But I often think that Apple gets a lot of undeserved praise or when they fall short, it never seems to really come to attention.

I have no idea of the marketbase for the iPad. I'm sure it will find one, and it may be the next greatest thing. But it looks to me like a 1.0 product. By the time we get to 2.0, I would want these things:

Flash (or if not flash, fine, back Silverlight) support. If they at least get Silverlight, you could do Netflix VOD on it.. or Flash (same deal)

needs a native USB port or SD card. not part of a docking station, make it part of the unit. Give us the ability to export things off of it, or import easily to it.

It has no GPS. So, while Google Maps is cool, it's not as valuable unless you can put in your starting address. Which sometimes isn't something you know (where am I?)

Again, as above, while it's easy to say "I could see nurses using it" I work a lot with medical software. Daily. I can tell you this: there isn't a single major product at use in any hospital I know of with any reach that is a mac product. That's not good or bad, that's just what the product is. A great # of it functions via IBM solutions, who is one of the larger hospital record device managers, and services contracted out through the likes of Cerner, etc..

The systems cost significant amounts of funds. Most of them need to integrate with other systems. Even in smaller practices, the market is very flat and most use either specific hardware or very specific requirements. There is -zero- chance, and I mean -zero- that you'll see, say, Dentrix come to an iPad. There is -zero- chance you'll see HCFAnet.3 or EVS--SID or Hufra come to this device. It's just not in the cards. And on software you're paying an average of $100,000 to $200,000 to license, you aren't going to take the risk of being a guinea pig.

Look, I think this is an interesting start to the product. I'm betting money by the time Generation 2 product comes out, this is going to be something I may have significant interest in. Several comic book companies (Marvel, Dark Horse) are already toying with Flash-enabled "Motion Comics" by subscription. You give me access to graphic novels, etc. via this.. or a webcam so I can use Skype, or a SD Card so I can import pictures/export conent.. yeah, this has all the setup of something that could be slick.

But it just has the feel of a clear "1.0" product.

 

[mattCR]

Again, I don't own/didn't buy a Kindle because it too is too spendy. However, the Kindle is a single purpose device that does it very well. So, there is that. With an iPad, the bar for what it should do and how it should do it is much higher.

I will also admit: book availability is very big to me. It's one of the most important things. I have -no- music on my personal ipod, but I have more then 5 years of Audible stored there, where I've been a subscriber at the highest rate (6 books a month) that they offer me. And I can't tell you how often I grab more then that # of books.

So, yes, it happens. And it's why I do love my Ipod, which does a better job of it then anything else I've found.

I'll be honest and say, while I don't have a kindle, if I wanted one, I was offered one for free as long as I kept up my audible subscription and committed to 1 year. So, it's tempting.to me, but again, I'm not really interested enough, my iPod does a perfect job of it.

The factor for me is that I have the iPod touch. I like it. I am just not seeing features with the iPad that I think translate into me saying "I'll drop $500 for it".. they just aren't there.

I agree with the sentiment that the idea of paying whatever for kindle is stupid. But of those I know with a Kindle, I can't think of anyone who paid full price. My brother, the only one I directly know with a Kindle, received his for $140 after a discount card from Amazon as thanks for his purchase history. A good friend, also a heavy audio-book listener, received his in the same deal I was offered.

I think the one thing this does is get a real jump on what happens next on the tablet front. And we'll see where that goes. I think by the time Gen3 of the iPad (again, I think this badly needs a name change) comes out, they could have something truly awesome. I just don't think it is there now.

Originally Posted by Ted Todorov

This is just silly. You don't have to have a monthly data fee with the iPad, and it has WiFi which the Kindle does not. The 3G data plan on the Kindle allows you to do exactly one thing -- download books. Not very useful. The new Kindle SDK -- if your app ends up using more then something absurd like 20KB worth of data per month, Amazon will send you, the developer, the bill for each and every user who goes over. And let me repeat, the Kindle doesn't have WiFi, which essentially means that it has no data connection at all.

And the Kindle DX, which costs $489 vs. $499 for the iPad has 3.3GB user accessible storage vs. 16GB for the iPad and the Kindle is an eBook reader. Period. The Kindle right now looks like a big joke to anyone not obsessed with the goodness of eInk.

 

[Sam Posten]

Originally Posted by nolesrule

Underwhelming. You can buy a Dell netbook and put snow leopard on it for less, and you'd be able to do more (you know, not restricted to iTunes/App store). It's essentially a large screen iPod Touch.

"No Wireless. Less space than a Nomad. Lame"

Commander Taco, Slashdot 2001